[22:31:20] NASSP Logging has been started by thewonderidiot [22:31:36] Yep totally understand! [22:31:39] oh yeah that should be fine then [22:32:06] which checklists are you guys talking about? [22:32:10] the four-per-collection only applies to you, by the way [22:32:13] So back to NASSP i have to rework the ECS to compensate for the valve changes [22:32:31] so we can get other people to request other things if it becomes necessary [22:33:10] I think they only have 3 11 checklists [22:33:24] So id ideally just get all three [22:33:29] yep :D [22:34:39] at 81:04:00 i see a p22 auto optics and alt lmk and a1 tracking is there a way to calculate that or is it even required? [22:35:46] I fixed the glycol loop sizes to the real mass and have to rework the tanks as well as finding a solution to increase the flow though the co2 scrubbers. I have my work cut out again haha [22:36:20] Ypu can use the data in the checklist and the g&n checklist to do those if you like [22:36:39] All the landmark info is in the flight plan [22:38:07] How did your LOI 2 go? [22:39:07] didnt happen yet i am at 78:30:00 [22:39:34] Ah ok [22:39:40] It should be easy [22:39:50] and what am i supposed to do with the verb 64 [22:40:14] That tells you the angles you need to point the high gain antenna to "see" earth [22:40:33] okay [22:40:53] You can omit that since the high gain is only partially working [22:43:49] that earth rise is quite a sight [22:48:07] rcflyinghokie, made a good landing, impressive work with the checklists! [22:48:41] Glad to hear! Any timing issues or mistakes? I have flown it through just once [22:48:48] I had that pesky 522 alarm before PDI ignition though [22:48:53] @rcflyinghokie are you the checklist guy? [22:49:05] Apparently [22:49:07] ;) [22:49:08] lol [22:49:18] I think we'll need the flown version to have the proper LR test procedure [22:49:28] Yeah we do [22:49:39] well, for those two p30s before loi, it doesnt say to reload the n81 values [22:49:56] The actual 11 mission had a 500 series alarm as well [22:50:15] I just saw that in the transcript today [22:51:05] Astronauthen96, i need to take a look and see [22:51:45] in the flight plan it says to reload them right before the final p40 sps thrusting [22:51:50] before 75:30 [22:55:10] In the LOI checklist? [22:55:54] no in the actual flight plan [22:56:02] Oh [22:56:10] Hold on i need to check [22:59:04] I dont have it on my phone i can look when i get home [22:59:29] But there should be an uplink before the final LOI 1 P30 [22:59:40] my CSM plane change is only 12 fps, is that even worth it? [23:00:16] @AlexB_88 for loi 2 did you do heads up or down or does it matter? [23:00:44] heads down [23:01:06] all orbital ops should be heads down [23:01:31] Theres a mission rule for plane change I believe [23:01:33] save for say PI [23:01:40] PDI [23:01:53] but in Apollo 11 even PDI is heads-down [23:01:56] PDI is heads down for 11 [23:03:02] and I re-phrase not all orbital ops, but rather orbital burns [23:05:30] I think Ill skip it... and in any event I can test the LM's limits for off-plane ascents :D [23:05:34] All CSM burns are heads down right? [23:05:56] And yeah you will be able to correct that our of plane [23:06:14] it should be within 8 NM [23:06:34] You will also probably have an out of plane error from ascent die to the lunar surface align [23:06:49] I think RTCC can calculate the crossrange error [23:07:26] Unless that was a feature i asked for haha i havent messed with ascent since i did the AGS work [23:09:11] and for loi 2 the flight plan calls for 53.6 x 65.6 but that is not what is in the maneuver pad [23:09:19] I have a lot of ECS work to do though i apologize for it not working right [23:09:27] I use P12 to check for cross-range error, I dont think RTCC can do it yet [23:10:17] Astronauthen96 the RTCC calculates a circular orbit [23:10:35] so just leave it at 60? [23:10:39] Yes [23:11:28] astronauthen96, the real moon has a very diverse gravity field, the targeted that weird orbit because they deemed the orbit would gradually migrate to circular 60x60 with the gravity field over time [23:11:40] Which it did [23:12:03] and I dont think we simulate that in Orbiter 2016 so 60x60 should be fine [23:12:40] I think some is simulated but not super accurate [23:13:16] But yeah your DOI will expect a 60x60 or so [23:13:32] And it will compensate for any variation [23:13:36] yeah [23:15:22] If you havent done much in the LM its easy to get behind in it [23:15:38] So take your time during powerup learning things [23:15:42] And save often [23:16:27] yeah, i am mostly familiar with the csm [23:17:12] @thewonderidiot just wondering have you done a full mission yet? [23:17:27] if watching Apollo 5 counts, then yes [23:17:35] otherwise I have just barely made it through a launch <_< [23:18:03] is that all you do for apollo 5 is watch [23:18:07] yup! [23:18:14] sounds like fun [23:18:15] Sunburst 120 flies the mission autonomously [23:18:18] it's pretty amazing [23:18:30] indy91 and I had a lot of fun getting it to work [23:18:40] Yeah i watched it [23:18:49] It was impressive [23:19:37] I do need to fly an actual mission at some point [23:19:43] Yeah you do [23:19:56] You need to fly your AGS fix finally [23:20:01] hahaha [23:20:12] eh, I'm more proud of the AGC fixes :P [23:20:20] Fair enough [23:20:26] but yeah [23:20:28] for sure [23:20:32] Though the AGS is impressive for its simplicity [23:20:45] hahaha yeah, that was what, a two character fix? [23:20:49] at least on the virtualagc side [23:21:04] that was an extremely devious problem [23:22:16] astronauthen96: I only got involved with NASSP by complete accident, heh [23:23:23] @thewonderidiot dont remember if i asked you but are you a developer too? [23:24:07] sort of -- I maintain the AGC and AGS emulators, and lead the transcriptions of new program listings if we find them [23:24:20] my real primary project is building a replica AGC straight to the original schematics [23:24:36] nice [23:24:45] I really want FP7 [23:25:05] and things sort of worked out such that I knew how to fix some AGC problems NASSP was having exactly when indy91 showed up asking about it [23:25:28] i think apollo 15-17 had a different agc is that right? [23:25:31] so I sort of adopted the virtualagc emulator and started fixing all the things in it to work like my hardware simulations [23:25:43] nope, the hardware was the same [23:25:52] Software was different [23:25:59] even the software was the same for all three missions [23:26:06] they all flew Artemis 072 and Luminary 210 [23:26:13] as of last year, we have both of those and use them in NASSP [23:26:15] 11-14 it changed [23:26:18] thats what i meant i know there is more programs like the tli program 15 [23:26:28] yeah [23:26:44] for the most part in NASSP what you're using is the actual mission code [23:26:49] with these caveats: [23:26:58] for Apollo 9, we don't have any copies of Sundance, the LM software [23:27:21] we don't have Comanche 44, which was the CM software for Apollo 10, and we only have Luminary 69 instead of Luminary 69 rev 2 for the LM [23:27:36] the only difference between 69 and 69.2 was that they switched to the R2 gravity model [23:27:44] we have both of the flown programs for 11 [23:28:09] for 12, we have Luminary 116 for the LM, but not Comanche 67 for the CM [23:28:31] we don't have either of the Apollo 13 programs, although we have an early release of Luminary 131, which is kinda close for the LM [23:28:38] Not having sundance was a challenge [23:28:45] @AlexB_88 throughout the mission did you get any ctd's? [23:28:58] we also don't have either Apollo 14 program, although Zerlina 56 is pretty close to Luminary 178 [23:29:05] and then we have both for 15-17 [23:29:20] the Apollo 5 code, Sunburst 120, is also the version that flew [23:29:28] yeah it's a real shame we don't have Sundance [23:29:45] If you guys haven't had ctd's during TLC that means the valve size fixes worked [23:30:16] when were these fixed? [23:30:22] i am getting ctd's right now [23:30:55] Hmm [23:31:06] they happen at random times [23:31:26] Did the ecs displays go off scale before that? [23:31:44] before what the ctd's [23:32:10] Yeah [23:32:21] not sure [23:32:21] If not then the ctds are sonething else [23:32:34] slow response but I feel like FP7 is the most likely program for us to find next [23:33:08] just because the whole listing was distributed as appendices to a somewhat commonish document [23:35:11] I hope so i really would love to know the changes [23:35:38] @AlexB_88 so have you had any ctd's [23:36:33] astronauthen96, apologies I was away for a sec. I did have on in lunar orbit, but it was not related to ECS [23:36:48] did you get any? [23:36:52] yes [23:37:02] at what point? [23:37:18] at random times i am getting some now only sometimes though [23:37:37] in the LM or CSM? [23:37:44] csm so far [23:38:19] hmm, how old ins your scenario? [23:38:39] maybe a couple of days [23:38:51] well [23:39:17] hard to explain it [23:39:30] did you launch before the latest update? rcflyinghokie, maybe if his scenario is older then the latest LM ECS config file, could that cause issues? [23:39:49] i launched a couple of days ago [23:40:12] my lem has been updated maybe twice [23:40:22] cant remember the last time [23:40:44] Its possible [23:40:56] if it was updated after you launched, im thinking maybe the scenario has some outdated values [23:41:04] @rcflyinghokie would you be able to check my latest scenario [23:41:14] When i get home in an hour or so yes [23:41:18] okay [23:41:59] Yeah Alex you might be right, but the ECS hasnt caused CTDs in a while just the NaN errors so im not certain [23:42:10] yeah [23:42:16] Astronauthen96 do you use VS to compile? [23:42:29] what do you mean [23:43:53] they were updated definetly after launch [23:58:03] @AlexB_88 did you get any during TLC [00:05:10] not with the latest update [00:05:46] i wasnt getting them during launch or earth orbit or anytime before the lem was created [00:13:14] @rcflyinghokie1 i wasnt getting them during launch or earth orbit or anytime before the lem was created [00:26:45] Sorry was driving home left IRC up [00:27:28] @rcflyinghokie i wasnt getting them during launch or earth orbit or anytime before the lem was created [00:27:42] Can you debug them? [00:27:51] i have no idea how to do that [00:29:18] Do you use visual studio? [00:29:28] no [00:29:48] Ah never mind [00:30:04] You can debug using visual studio and it can show you where in the code caused the crash [00:31:38] can you tell me how to do that [00:32:15] Its a little bit involved but I can try [00:32:33] First you need to download and install microsoft visual studio community [00:32:36] Its free [00:32:40] But it will take a bit [00:34:07] its downloading now [00:34:22] is it complicated? [00:35:54] first i have to download windows 7 service pack 1 [00:36:06] It can be [00:36:18] Once you have it down it is very easy [00:36:26] But setup can be a pain [00:47:07] WHEN SERVICE PACK one is sownloading, would you mind just taking a look at my scenario? [00:49:08] https://www.dropbox.com/s/djrtklr3vk2c2xq/BEFORE%20LOI%202.scn?dl=0 [00:51:06] The scn itself looks fine [00:51:22] When do you get your ctd [00:52:27] it happens randomly [00:53:12] Hard to trace that down [00:53:18] Without debugging it when you get it [00:54:14] i think @AlexB_88 said it might be outdated values [00:55:06] I mean its possible but again, only valve sizes were changed [01:00:34] Random CTD's are nearly impossible to remotely debug [01:01:14] mainly happens when i change views or press a button [01:02:08] In the CSM or LM [01:02:18] csm [01:02:37] Yeah I am betting that has nothing to do with the ECS changes [01:05:05] Oh and while you are putting VS in, you may want to learn how to get a git checkout, it makes things much easier to keep NASSP up to date in my opinion, as long as you can build with VS [01:05:11] http://www.ibiblio.org/mscorbit/mscforum/index.php?topic=2864.0 [01:07:30] That way you can simply go a git checkout, your local copy will be up to date, and you can build the project with visual studio and debug when you crash [01:09:25] Sorry i cannot be much more help tonight, its been a long day and I have like no brain power left (not that I have much to begin with :P) [01:09:44] okay [01:09:55] But install VS and GIT and if Alex hangs around I am sure he can help you get it set up [01:10:18] And if thewonderidiot or Thymo pop on they can as well [01:10:33] Goodnight [01:14:42] IRC-Source_35605: I'm generally pretty quiet at night but I am usually on until 10-11pm PST [01:15:00] okay [01:15:08] but no promising on answering questions, unless you want to know something about AGC hardware or non-mission software [01:15:10] lol [01:15:43] do you know how to debug ctd's with visual studio? [01:15:50] nope [01:16:01] okay [01:16:02] that has caused a lot of consternation [01:20:11] it stopped working for Niklas and Ryan for a while [01:38:34] @thewonderidiot so you said that you have barely gotten passed a launch? [01:48:36] yeah [01:48:41] I launched Apollo 8 at one point [01:48:52] but then got distracted so it only barely made it to orbit [01:49:22] you should try doing a mission one time like apollo 11, when you get into lunar orbit and see that earthrise its a great feeling [02:01:45] haha yeah for sure [02:01:53] I will eventually [02:24:40] night [13:38:29] hey [13:40:26] @rcflyinghokie, so do you think you could show me how to use the visual studio to debug the ctd?, or are you busy [13:40:35] I can start [13:40:50] Where are you with the installs? [13:41:03] got visual studio community installed [13:41:27] Ok awesome [13:42:31] Do you know how to run it as administrator? [13:42:35] yes [13:42:52] got it [13:43:54] Ok [13:44:10] So first we will enable the debugger [13:44:32] When it is open, go up top to debug, and click options [13:46:31] is it the just in time debugger [13:48:35] Yes [13:48:40] okay [13:48:45] Make sure all three are checked [13:48:58] Then click ok [13:50:01] all three what? [13:50:33] Options ->debugging->just in time [13:50:38] There are 3 checkboxes [13:51:03] i only see two [13:52:00] native and managed [13:54:45] There should be one for script as well [13:55:01] https://www.dropbox.com/s/vffw7pr2p6ilh2r/Screenshot%202018-02-03%2008.54.53.png?dl=0 [14:00:14] Oh wait [14:00:19] You might not have installed it [14:00:26] Which options did you select when installing [14:01:32] only just in time debugger [14:01:44] well alex said that he was getting ctd's as well and he said it wasnt related to the ecs, would you mind just trying this scenario and see if you can get a ctd i will be right back i am going to make coffee then i will try debugging [14:01:52] https://www.dropbox.com/s/djrtklr3vk2c2xq/BEFORE%20LOI%202.scn?dl=0 [14:06:10] ok [14:14:08] No CTD yet [14:16:50] Time accel to LOI2 time no CTD [14:17:43] did you use the rtcc? [14:18:14] Yes [14:18:20] Calculated LOI2 and such [14:20:07] No problems I saw [14:21:08] well when i ctd'd i got something about nt.dll [14:22:44] Thats an issue with your windows install [14:23:18] Or your redist packages [14:23:26] Not orbiter/NASSP [14:23:34] do you think that might be it [14:25:18] Its a windows file so yeah [14:25:32] And using the debigger for NASSP wont help with that [14:25:35] debugger* [14:25:47] it said not loaded [14:25:57] So somethings not installed [14:26:07] Did this just start happening? [14:26:30] i used the debugger and thats what came up [14:27:17] Which debugger [14:27:27] And what exactly came up [14:27:31] just in time [14:27:49] nt.dll could not load or something like that [14:28:11] I have never seen that error before [14:28:23] But again which options did you choose when installing VS [14:28:51] i could reinstall it [14:29:26] Well you need to install certain components [14:29:33] So you can do a modify install [14:29:42] go to the visual studio installer [14:30:07] too late [14:30:37] Too late for whay [14:30:38] what [14:30:47] strange it doesnt happen in earth orbit [14:30:59] its uninstalling [14:31:03] Nooo [14:31:19] or anytime before the lem is created [14:31:23] Welp you will have to reinstall and redownload [14:31:38] And an nt.dll issue has nothing to do with NASSP code I am pretty sure [14:31:59] Let me know when you begin the reinstallation so I can tell you which packages you need [14:32:09] i am at the install page [14:32:19] Ok [14:32:52] I selected universal windows platform development and desktop development with C++ [14:32:59] And the additional tools you will need [14:33:19] VC++ 2015.3 V140 toolset and JIT debigger [14:33:22] debugger [14:34:26] got it [14:34:43] Ok with those selected you can install [14:35:10] its 21 gb but thats fine [14:35:17] Yeah [14:35:29] You only selected the things I mentioned right? [14:35:36] yes [14:35:55] well time for another coffee [14:36:42] are you in canada? [14:37:10] just wondering [14:37:25] No [14:37:27] US [14:38:01] EST? [14:38:03] Yeah [14:38:10] Just outside of Washington DC [14:38:12] its 6:30 here [14:38:23] 9:30 here [14:38:25] in surrey british columbia [14:39:43] well i have another laptop [14:39:51] maybe i can try the scenarios on there [14:41:19] I will say I have a laptio I get CTD's all the time on and I havent a clue why [14:41:38] They are dxd9 errors so I think its a graphics software incompatibility [14:41:44] laptio [14:41:48] laptop [14:41:52] Wow I cannot spell this morning [14:52:12] when it happens it seems to freeze for 1 or 2 seconds then crashes [14:54:00] Yeah thats probably a hardware/software issue on your computer similar to mine [14:58:32] so i am looking up the nt.dll thing and it seems it has something to do with visual c ++ [14:58:42] but i will try it on my laptop [14:59:16] Thats why I think its an issue with a redist package [14:59:39] Do you have redist 2015 and 2017 in x64 and x86 [14:59:52] not sure [14:59:57] do i need both [15:00:50] my system is 64bit [15:01:35] Yes [15:01:40] NASSP runs in x86 [15:22:32] morning [15:22:38] Good morning [15:25:42] @AlexB_88 did you say that you were getting ctd's in lunar orbit? [15:26:24] none so far [15:26:47] i think its a problem with my system [15:27:28] what happens exactly during your CTD? [15:27:48] nothing really [15:28:03] is there a message of some sorts? [15:28:13] nt.dll [15:28:59] ntdll.dll? [15:29:10] probably windows ntdll.dll [15:29:18] yes [15:29:45] you can search on the internet for what to do in those errors, maybe you just have a corrupt version of that file [15:29:48] Woo side note I have the glycol mass fixed and pressure stabilized once again without messing with the tiny valve sizes [15:29:55] Now to see how temperatures flow [15:33:33] I am just about to sart ascent preparations with Apollo 11. Up until now I do have a list of minor issues for the checklists, but for the most part it is very good [15:34:33] And the ECS has been working quite well, aside from a perpetual temp light on the DSKY, the high C02 [15:35:01] Haha yeah those are both caused by the magnitude decrease of valve sizes [15:35:07] Thats what I am slowly working through [15:35:34] And I'd love your minor list whenever you get a chance [15:35:42] sure [15:36:35] One other thing is the FWD hatch is very hard to open, I have to differ from the checklist and close DES O2 for the pressue to go down enough, then it opens [15:37:16] if I leave DES O2 - OPEN as the checklist says, the pressure never goes down enough [15:37:52] Let me recheck the 11 surface checklist and see if it is supposed to close [15:38:00] But the hard to open thing was a real problem :) [15:38:40] yeah [15:38:58] oh and I have fixed our descent stage, legs closed [15:39:21] It was wrong all along [15:40:48] What was up with it? [15:41:27] one sec Ill make a comparison [15:42:56] And yeah the o2 valve stays open, so I will have to check and see where it is leaking into the cabin [15:43:34] Looks like suit circuit pressure stays at egress pressure while the crew is on the surface [15:43:58] So I probably have a leaky valve somewhere there letting it into the cabin I will investigate that when I move to the O2 system fixes [15:46:59] https://www.dropbox.com/s/5lo532rvryp02ke/LM_1.png?dl=0 [15:47:56] I dont think I ever noticed [15:48:12] whoever modelled our LM legs retracted, had the legs dropped down in a weird way [15:48:46] the top part of the leg structure (the black part at the top) should not move between the 2 states [15:49:10] and also the probes should be folded back [15:53:39] The probes should be back? [15:53:52] Do they extend separately? [15:54:58] yep [15:54:59] https://spaceflightblunders.files.wordpress.com/2017/09/lm-4-s69-17807-orig.jpg?w=1632 [15:55:47] probably extends through the same mechanism as leg extension [15:55:59] That LM has a probe on the front leg, Apollo 10? [15:56:14] yeah I think thats Apollo 10 [15:56:27] Yeah up top LM 4 [15:56:39] So 9 and 10 need a probe on the front leg [15:56:51] yeah [15:59:10] Hmm for some reason my evap temp out keeps dropping from 50 to like 20 without the evap flow on [16:02:37] Ah found it [16:18:41] morning! [16:19:41] Good morning [16:20:26] what's up? [16:40:00] I cannot keep the glycol loops cool enough with these valve changes [16:40:19] Well actually the loops are ok, but the IMU is too hot [16:40:48] boo [16:41:06] I am trying to change the heat exchanger to compensate [17:12:37] heheh, this AGC signal has a great name [17:12:38]