[10:51:11] NASSP Logging has been started by indy91 [10:51:14] aha! [11:21:38] good morning indy [11:22:53] just one question what would happen if i hit pro for the p23 after a bad mark? [11:24:47] hey [11:24:54] your state vector will be a bit worse [11:25:13] you get new state vectors uplinked regularly [11:25:18] so no big thing [11:25:26] okay [11:25:37] it was just one mark [11:26:05] so i started day two again and i will just skip them [11:26:53] i will try to get to lunar orbit on day four by tonight [11:27:48] yeah, skipping the P23 is no big deal [11:28:04] just don't use more than 50x time acceleration [11:28:13] for getting to day 4 quickly I mean [11:28:31] yeah i used 50x alot with no problems [11:29:56] too bad there is no entry into the lem during tlc [11:31:22] yeah, that was first done on Apollo 11 [11:32:07] i guess i could just go in it as i would like to memorized where the panel numbers are [11:32:17] that didn't take me too long with the cm [11:32:23] sure [11:32:28] and the LM has fewer panels anyway [11:33:24] and do you know yet how the 3d cockpit would work [11:33:44] would it just be you playing one astronaut [11:33:49] well, in a 3D cockpit you can switch between different view points [11:34:14] so there probably would be a preset viewing point for each panel [11:34:20] yeah thats right i forgot [11:34:33] and it will be the same as with 2D panels, you have to do the job of 3 [11:34:58] yeah it is more fun that way there are more things to do [11:35:37] you say that now, before having to do lots of tasks in both CSM and LM [11:35:43] at the same time [11:35:56] for the most part, we are just letting the CSM coast around after undocking [11:36:05] because the more important events are happening in the LM [11:36:36] but prior to undocking you have the maneuver the CSM to different attitudes while at the same time you have to perform the LM activation [11:36:39] can be challenging at times [11:36:50] with V49? [11:37:12] mostly, yes [11:38:01] how long is the lem activation? in apollo 13 he said "three hours by the checklist" [11:38:08] sounds about right [11:38:46] LM activation starts at about 94:30 in the flight plan [11:38:56] undocking at 98:10 [11:41:02] but that is with some time to spare [11:41:26] so 3 hours sounds right when doing it be the checklist, yes [12:23:46] and for some reason my frame rates have gone up suddenly [12:26:30] @indy91 this is not really related to nassp but have you seen this website before? http://apollo17.org/ [12:26:37] I have, yes [12:26:41] it's awesome [12:27:23] maybe you could use some of the audio for apollo 17 in nassp [12:28:40] but i ont know how that would work with time acceleration [12:28:50] don't* [12:29:54] i guess you could just have it in the background and sync the get's [12:30:37] yeah, would be great to use more mission audio [12:31:12] there is quite a bit of apollo 11 audio on the flight journal website [12:31:31] actually, I told you nonsense a few days ago [12:31:40] using mission audio IS supported [12:31:47] we already use that extensively for Apollo 7 [12:31:56] what do you mean? [12:32:06] at least from liftoff to about 3:30h GET [12:32:07] like adding sounds [12:32:09] yep [12:32:25] there is a csmsound.csv file in the Apollo 7 sound folder [12:32:59] and that just needs to be added for more missions, along with more audio files [12:33:28] yeah i wanted to try to add this for the apollo 11 launch starting at -5:10 https://www.honeysucklecreek.net/audio/A11_Network/A11_launch_Network_and_FD_loops_synched.mp3 [12:34:09] it is the flight directors loop on the right channel and network on the left [12:34:18] ah, I see [12:34:31] Sound\ProjectApollo\Apollo11\csmsound.csv [12:34:36] i prefer it to the pao [12:34:38] that's the file controlling what is played when [12:34:49] yeah, the astronauts wouldn't hear the PAO [12:35:17] I don't think mp3 is supported though [12:35:23] yeah i cant find any other flight directors loops for any of the other launches without the pao in it [12:40:03] yeah these sound files are all wav [12:45:12] morning [12:45:14] good morning alex [12:45:28] just adding some sounds for apollo 11 [12:47:30] do you guys have anyone doing sounds right now? [12:47:54] not really [12:48:06] what do you mean by adding sounds? [12:48:54] there is more pre launch audio /PAO/ that isnt in nassp [12:49:29] in the flight journal and i am also going to add the flight directors loop for launch https://www.honeysucklecreek.net/audio/A11_Network/A11_launch_Network_and_FD_loops_synched.mp3 [12:50:03] and some wake up calls as well all from the flight journal website for apollo 11 [12:50:28] hey Alex [12:50:38] just did LM staging and the insertion burn for Apollo 10 [12:50:45] nice [12:50:45] now working on the CSI PAD [12:51:18] astronauthen96__ that is nice stuff [12:51:23] according to an Apollo mission techniques document the ground calculated CSI burn solution is actually the nominal one planned much earlier [12:51:32] before CSM separation even [12:52:39] and i think in nassp you start the gimbal motors at 5:25 but in reality it was at 6 minutes [12:52:43] astronauthen96__ However I think we have enough sounds in the main repo and in my oppinion would interfere with MCC as lots of stuff in MCC are synched to the nominal timeline, and not real-life timeline [12:54:40] in the future sounds could be synced up to the updated landing time [12:54:47] hmm [12:54:48] what do you mean by interfere [12:55:03] although that would only really work with the MCC [12:57:04] MCC sends out things like "mode 1 B" and others like that already [12:59:06] the sounds would have to be dynamic and synced up to MCC or able to cope with aborts and stuff, otherwise they are a nuisance unless you fly exactly as the real timeline, in my opinion [13:09:18] yeah i would probably just add the launch and wakeup calls for my self then in this case [13:09:34] and the go for tli call too [13:10:00] of course [13:10:54] maybe what could be done is a bit like AMSO does and have separate sound packs for those who wish to have all those sounds as well [13:11:15] yeah i remember amso [13:11:46] they had a flight director loop option but of course they didn't have the mcc [13:12:17] one thing to keep in mind is the astronauts cant hear the flight director's loop from inside the spacecraft [13:12:56] but I guess if one wants to hear that, it could be part of the sound pack [13:24:49] @indy91 so if i accepted a bad p23 mark by accident could i just update my state vector with the rtcc? [13:25:54] you could do that. Or wait for the next time the MCC is updating your state vector. [13:26:04] No big deal either way [13:26:21] The next time you really need an accurate state vector is for LOI, and that is some time away [13:26:34] probably tonight [13:26:58] because i dont work today [13:31:49] indy91, I think you told me already but cant remember... What is Docking Initiation Processor (DKI)? [13:32:15] one of the RTCC processors setting up a rendezvous sequence [13:32:50] it calculates a horizontal phasing maneuver setting up a CSI/CDH/TPI sequence with the right DH and the right TPI time [13:33:13] on Apollo 10 it was used to calculate a PDI abort [13:33:15] ah ok [13:35:16] and it would also be used for a bunch of CSM rescue cases [13:35:26] right [13:35:44] is it similar to the rendezvous calculator you spoke of? [13:35:57] or rendezvous profile planner [13:37:17] not really, no. The thing with the RTCC was, it always involved a bunch of manual steps [13:37:39] right [13:38:09] so that rendezvous planner right now only has the Apollo 10 sequence and is necessary to do it automatically [13:38:39] makes sense [13:39:08] the nominal phasing maneuver on Apollo 10 was calculated with the two impulse processor. [13:39:21] basically like the Lambert page of the RTCC MFD with some additional feature [13:39:39] its main task was calculating a NCC/NSR sequence like on Apollo 7 [13:39:47] and that probably would work automatically [13:40:17] that means, it sets up the right DH at the right time to achieve TPI at a desired time [13:40:44] but the additional insertion maneuver and CSI were a bit of a special case for Apollo 10 [13:41:16] I don't think they were able to plan a whole rendezvous with that tool [13:41:34] but they could calculate phasing and insertion as a pair, with input phase and height offsets [13:41:51] and then take the output state vector to calculate a normal rendezvous sequence [13:41:52] right [13:42:07] the manual step in there would be adjusting the TIG of insertion and CSI [13:42:39] that had some support, because those RTCC processor had as the output a range of DHs or arrival times [13:42:40] I love rendezvous talk in the morning :P [13:42:49] haha [13:43:05] Buzz, is that you? [13:43:44] Haha, sadly Dr. rendezvous is not present [13:44:10] so for most rendezvous situations except for the nominal Apollo 10 on there were some tools in the RTCC available that planned it all automatically [13:44:16] one* [13:45:27] what I will probably do is implement the RTCC processors as far as possible and for special cases like Apollo 10 just use a Apollo10RendezvouPlan function that uses a combination of them [13:46:03] but right nows it's all quite ad hoc still [13:46:46] rcflyinghokie, I got a ED RELAYS light at staging [13:48:24] ah I see [13:48:27] the light logic is wrong [13:48:37] for setting the light, you have nested ifs [13:49:11] so the state of the light isn't even determined every timestep in some cases [13:50:30] Hmmm [13:51:08] and what actually inhibits the light is the state of the master arm relay [13:51:55] I asked you about that light at staging actually [13:52:54] "when the master arm switch is on or the abort stage switch depressed, the ed relay caution is disabled" [13:53:04] I remember specifically asking about staging for that [13:53:20] as for the mcc updates hen i add a new build does it add new mcc's as well for my scenario? [13:53:50] rcflyinghokie, there is a staging relay in the ED relay boxes and it is used in the ED internal logic [13:54:02] which is used in the SCEA [13:54:06] and then in the CWEA [13:55:19] because of your nested ifs, the CWEA light is never reset [13:55:22] I know how to fix it [13:56:14] Isnt that how the logic is in the CWEA though [13:57:20] @rcflyinghokie for the apollo 11 launch you have the gimbal motors at 5:25 but in reality they were started at 6 minutes [13:57:42] no, the problem with your code is that if the ED relay box is unarmed, neither light on or light off functions are ever called [13:58:14] Oh I see [13:58:36] So what is the fix, 1 if statement? [13:59:27] basically [13:59:35] and I am researching the actual inhibit [13:59:44] astronauthen96__ we do not have an apollo 11 launch checklist [13:59:46] it's certainly the master arm relays [14:00:00] I just don't if through the SCEA or directly, I'll find out [14:00:19] yeah in the flight directors loop neil says "were go at 6 minutes, starting the gimbal motors" [14:00:27] Well the CWEA has an input for the master arm on and abort stage off positions [14:00:40] astronauthen96__, as long as you don't progress past where I am currently implementing the MCC for Apollo 10 you will not have to change anything about your scenarios [14:00:50] okay [14:00:58] rcflyinghokie, yes, but only indirectly [14:01:22] it says that in the description, but it's actually the master arm relays, that has the exact same conditions [14:01:34] abort stage or the master arm switch up [14:01:39] @indy91 okay [14:01:54] Then what signal is connected to that AND gate [14:02:09] that's what I am trying to find out [14:02:22] probably directly or indirectly the master arm relays of each ED relay box [14:02:53] although, in other cases it is the switches inhibiting something [14:02:57] so not 100% sure yet [14:03:22] Ok [14:03:43] AlexB_88, TLE is ready whenever you can find some way to make a strobe [14:05:18] sure, I'll do that now [14:05:21] And astronauthen96__ I will be adjusting launch timings on all missions soon anyways as there has been a lot done to the LVDC, and some of the current timings are a hybridization between a flight plan and the actual sim events [14:06:14] indy91, rcflyinghokie, I have found something: If you arm the ascent stage, and the master arm is on, staging will happen regardless of the abort stage switch [14:06:23] ah, found it. It's different than I thought. It's actually the master arm switch OR K19 in S&C control assembly 1 [14:06:44] AlexB_88, yes, that is normal [14:06:52] ah ok [14:07:06] firing command to the APS causes staging [14:07:25] right lol of course [14:07:58] So K19 also feeds that AND gate? [14:08:18] yes, K19 is abort staging command [14:08:35] So better to use that than the switch in the logic [14:08:38] yep [14:08:45] I'm changing it [14:08:48] Thanks [14:09:02] As you probably saw I forgot CWEA heat with my initial PR [14:09:12] right [14:09:16] So now we have 2 less systems that need heat implemented [14:09:30] is there a good example of a vessel using the strobe? [14:09:42] Delta glider? [14:09:45] so I can use as a template [14:09:49] does it? [14:09:52] I am pretty sure [14:09:55] ok [14:10:13] the DG is a good example for any Orbiter coding [14:10:18] Not sure if its on the original but its on the version IV [14:10:21] right [14:10:39] some other vessels weren't updated much for Orbiter 2016, but the default DG is usually state of the art [14:11:45] Yeah the default DG has a strobe [14:12:07] And the wingtips are white ones [14:12:34] DG also has nav lights [14:12:39] As does the CSM and LM [14:13:10] I pushed a bunch of scary RTCC updates [14:13:14] could break a lot [14:13:21] especially the MCC [14:13:27] ok next stupid question: How do I turn them on :D [14:13:40] but it has now partial APS support [14:13:46] in the DG Alex? [14:13:58] yeah [14:14:00] no switch [14:14:01] overhead panel [14:14:06] CTRL up [14:14:08] ah [14:14:19] Should be a few switches [14:15:25] Oh indy91, I dont know if it is a big deal but many timesteps use different names, "TimeStep" or Timestep" [14:15:38] Would it be a good idea to choose a convention and stick with it? [14:15:49] yes, I prefer Timestep [14:16:08] I changed a few Systemstimesteps so they are all the same as only 3 were different I believe [14:16:20] I can clean up the timesteps as well [14:16:36] I prefer Timestep as well [14:16:48] the capital just invites issues IMO [14:21:41] no real need to search for all of them [14:22:02] just change it whenever you stumble upon one [14:22:08] Sure [14:29:20] I did some last night I think I have 6 left I am just going to do it haha [14:34:50] Done with all those in lemsystems [14:38:22] PR up with that [14:38:44] Ah hold on [14:38:47] Forgot 2 [14:39:01] merged [14:39:03] too late [14:39:18] Haha I will have the fixed ones up [14:39:56] I only did the LM ones though, not the CM side [14:40:25] Checking for errors then I will PR again [14:41:56] There [14:42:00] Now it should build properly [14:43:19] merged [14:45:06] AlexB_88, any luck with the strobe? [14:48:07] not yet, still analyzing the DG code [15:08:37] i want to confirm, "anyone" can make videos of nassp? [15:09:49] people who don't have NASSP probably can't [15:09:56] but all others can [15:10:00] okay [15:10:09] i am going to go back to mcc1 and maybe record it [15:10:22] sure [15:10:27] and i will post some p23 videos and maybe someone could show me what i am doing wrong [15:11:12] I am sure you aren't doing much wrong. It's just very tricky to figure out. [15:11:36] There actually exists a video of a real micourse correction. Apollo 12: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ye2xqpVDyZc [15:11:57] so, they had onboard TV while the MCC was going on [15:12:10] pretty fun to watch the same procedures we have done so many times [15:12:15] i have seen that before [15:12:18] very interesting [15:12:42] they had one for apollo 13 mcc2 [15:13:15] oh speaking of which, did you guys know there is a real-life video of inside a block 1 CSM during launch/boost that is facing the instrument panel? [15:14:08] yeah there was on for the apollo soyuz mission filmed live in the cm for launch [15:15:08] really? did not know that [15:15:31] @indy91 its at 43:45 into this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezckueX38u8&index=7&list=PLC1yaZz2qeGqg8dvPgwcY9UFVlFMIjDmW [15:16:19] @AlexB_88 here is the video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cq12RdNLIA4&t=169s look at one minute [15:16:52] I knew about the ASTP video and the Apollo 6 (or 4?) video [15:18:02] I hadn't seen the Apollo 13 one [15:18:26] the burn is at 43:45 in the video [15:19:03] actually a couple of seconds after that [15:19:32] Apollo 12 video has a better viewpoint. But now I know that there was more than one MCC filmed [15:19:40] indy91, for the inverter code, this line: [15:19:41] dc_input->DrawPower(power_load*2.5); // Add inefficiency [15:19:57] What percentage inefficiency is that adding? [15:20:14] Seems like a lot [15:20:59] I am trying to convert the inefficiency to heat for a heat load [15:21:06] and also on apollo 11 had a little nap at 10:32 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7s-44nt6Js&index=2&list=PLOFH9q50V_sfbbH_qAVtb8bV8H1yEI6FL about 30 seconds in [15:21:21] i guess neil was tired [15:22:49] factor 2.5, that seems really a lot [15:23:03] probably adds 150% inefficiency [15:23:10] Thats what I figured as well [15:23:16] Thats why i thought I was missing something [15:23:37] Could be part of the large power drain on the asc bats as well [15:23:41] @rcflyinghokie i found another hidden delay in your checklists [15:24:37] in the p40 sps checklist for the gimbal test when your turn those dials for the second test there is a delay between each turning of the knob [15:24:40] There are many hidden delays in there [15:24:57] They are supposed to be [15:28:00] the CSM inverter has a quite detailed logic for the inverter inefficiency [15:28:14] I am sure this LM logic is wrong [15:28:17] Yeah I was looking at that [15:28:31] might be another hack done to get the displays during LM activation right [15:28:39] when there weren't so many systems implemented [15:29:00] Now I wonder how similar the two systems inverters are [15:29:24] Could the inverter in esystems be used safely in the LM [15:33:38] no [15:35:04] does the LM AC even have three phases? [15:36:06] no [15:36:09] it's single phase [15:36:24] so we just need to find better numbers for the LM [15:36:27] Yeah [15:36:43] I have operating parameters but no efficiency yet [15:38:09] aha! [15:38:15] LM-1 to the rescue [15:38:23] LM-1 Systems Handbook page 20 [15:39:28] I'll implement that [15:40:05] Wonderful! [15:40:13] I keep forgetting to look in there [15:40:37] yeah, it's quite useful [15:40:51] I'm sure the LM Data Book would have the sam graph [15:40:54] same* [15:42:22] I added the heatloads locally to the INV class [15:42:36] At least the pointers [15:43:41] And that will leave heat needed in only: LGC, CDU, PSA, LCA, DSE, PTA, & ECA [15:43:59] And of course other systems that can potentially put heat into the cabin [15:44:10] But that is down the road a ways [15:51:49] I actually forgot to put a crew in the LM on my Apollo 10 flight [15:51:52] so for the TLE light the function is BEACONLIGHTSPEC I think [15:52:06] maybe the checklist MFD should have a reminder for that? [15:52:28] I can add it to the IVT groups [15:52:38] yeah, probably makes sense [15:52:52] rcflyinghokie, do you have a document that describes the strobe light? [15:53:01] Ad a matter of fact yes [15:53:03] As* [15:53:26] Let me get you some pages [15:53:48] The handbook and AOH differ slightly [15:54:08] But pg 48 of the LM-8 handbook [15:54:26] And pg 551 of LM 10 AOH vol 1 [15:54:42] The AOH says 60 fpm [15:54:54] Handbook says 45 [15:56:17] The AOH also shows locations of the docking lights [15:56:41] good [15:57:03] But between those two sections of those two docs you should have all the info [15:57:13] Including colors of everything and intensities [15:57:29] we just have to decide if we want 60 fpm or 45 fpm [15:57:47] theres just 1 light, right? [16:01:42] Tracking? Yes [16:01:48] The big one right in the front [16:01:59] Looks like a headlight haha [16:02:03] right [16:02:22] max range 400 NM [16:04:27] Through the sextant [16:04:59] 130 I think was visual [16:09:38] yeah [16:09:56] dont know if we can make it like that in the sim [16:10:09] probably going to be 400 NM sextant and visual [16:10:35] unless FOV effects the viewing distance [16:11:31] Yeah that should be ok [16:20:32] morning! [16:21:40] Hey mike [16:22:02] rcflyinghokie, ok 1st step done. Got the light to display in the sim [16:22:37] Awesome [16:23:28] I haven't added it to the TLE Timestep yet, still working on getting it properly positioned, and adjusting all the parameters [16:23:39] Well it is all ready for you [16:23:46] great [16:24:01] if (IsPowered()) { [16:24:09] right [16:24:09] Then whatever is needed to turn it on [16:24:14] very easy then [16:42:07] those 40W idle inverter heat loss are probably why they usually only had one running [16:45:44] Hey [16:46:47] So a friend of mine is at the National Air and Space museum apparently right now. [16:47:53] Ah right down the street from me [16:48:10] The one on the Mall or at Dulles? [16:48:21] The one with Skylab 4. [16:48:30] Trying to convince him to steal the AGC. :p [16:49:02] The mall [16:49:06] hello @Thymo [16:49:16] Hey astronauthen96__ [16:49:31] just having fun with some ctd-less nassp [16:49:57] Yeah Niklas tried to convince me to steal the Apollo 11 checklists when i was there a few weeks ago [16:50:08] Which by the way I have not heard anything back about which is a bummer [16:50:12] did they not let you have it? [16:50:48] Well they have to approve scans of it [16:51:17] indy91 you mean the ones in the CM? [16:51:20] yeah they would be neat to have [16:51:45] in Ron's and my experience, Smithsonian time runs quite a bit slower than real time [16:52:16] I would honestly have been surprised if something already came of that, haha [16:52:48] It sucks because I am so close to it yet so far [16:52:57] yeah [16:53:00] is that where you get your agc stuff from? [16:53:58] we've gotten scans of some things from them, but it is a long process [16:54:29] i know there was an apollo 11 lem timeline on here earlier does anyone have the link to it? [16:55:11] http://www.ibiblio.org/apollo/Documents/Apollo11-LM-TimelineBook-excerpts.pdf [16:55:30] thanks [16:55:37] also speaking of [16:55:40] the Timeline Books all start after undocking [16:55:49] did any of you ever email Debbie about the LM Data Book? [16:55:50] rcflyinghokie, no, I meant the ones in the LM [16:56:14] i guess there is no apollo 10 one or is there? [16:57:08] thewonderidiot, I never did, no [16:57:29] astronauthen96__, that's actually a good question. I am not quite sure which document was used for which phase [16:57:36] there was a LM Rendezvous checklist [16:57:48] which might or might not cover everything from undocking on [16:57:54] indy91 well you can only have one on at a time anyways [16:59:02] that is not correct [16:59:26] inverters->inverter switch->AC buses [16:59:38]