[19:56:19] NASSP Logging has been started by indy91 [19:56:27] wasn't even on [21:23:27] night! [18:48:08] morning! [18:54:13] hey [18:59:19] what's up? [19:02:48] went through old Orbiter folders today, somehow nothing I have worked on in the past is working anymore [19:03:00] none of the unfinished projects that is [19:03:09] hahahaha [19:03:19] that's strange [19:03:34] it probably went like this: it was working at some point, I tried to do an update, didn't work, got frustrated, abandoned project [19:03:57] so some small fix would probably do it, but after some years, no clue :D [19:06:08] my Delta Glider Autopilot thing can still automatically fly a traffic pattern at the Shuttle Landing Facility at least [19:06:15] but ascent to orbit is broken, lol [19:06:30] based on LGC ascent guidance actually [19:07:32] not bad for 2013 Niklas [19:09:47] hahahaha oh man [19:10:00] those are some old projects [19:11:29] yes [19:11:35] I never throw anything away [19:11:47] there was a very difficult to set up Orbiter addon [19:11:58] called STS Payloads, had a bunch of payloads for the Shuttle [19:12:14] and to this day I still have a separate Orbiter install saved for it [19:12:24] on the external hard drive by now, but still [19:12:26] Orbiter 2006 [19:12:52] let's see when I did that... [19:13:15] wow [19:13:57] difficult to say [19:14:01] pre 2010 [19:14:45] none of the installed addons are from 2009 or later [19:15:21] the change date on the folders is definitely when I got my laptop for university [19:16:02] Orbiter exe crashed almost immediately [19:16:13] so much for a "working install" [19:16:24] maybe with Windows XP :D [19:18:04] hahaha [19:18:08] compatibility mode maybe? [19:20:25] hmm, I think there is some edit protection on the folder [19:20:36] Orbiter Sound didn't like it, now I am one step further [19:22:14] Orbiter 2006 loading screen, long time no see [19:22:49] oh man [19:24:39] it works! [19:24:55] had to give me full write/read access to the folder on the external drive [19:25:15] wow [19:25:17] impressive :D [19:30:20] can't really figure out how to launch, but it basically works [19:33:14] lots of old Shuttle scenarios, one of the Shuttle addons for Orbiter is not available anymore, so this might be a good way to get accurate ISS TLEs [19:33:19] for various missions [19:33:39] oh nice [19:34:01] yeah, the scenarios were created with great care taken for accuracy [19:36:38] I'm surprised I don't have an old NASSP install [20:57:39] night! [06:51:45] thewonderidiot, still awake? [06:51:57] I am! [06:51:59] what's up? [06:52:23] first, good morning! [06:52:24] haha [06:52:30] good morning! [06:52:35] this sounds like something for you: https://www.orbiter-forum.com/showthread.php?t=40579 [06:53:01] oh yes, I can definitely take that one [06:53:15] thanks for pointing it out :D [06:53:29] no problem [06:56:24] AGC addressing is pretty rough, heh [06:57:08] I was working on something related to it the other day... I don't remember what [06:57:22] but the rationale for how the superbank bits work finally clicked [06:57:23] we talked about Sunburst avoiding some memory areas [06:57:26] I get it now [06:57:36] before that, this was a few weeks ago [06:58:03] well, if you understood something new about the AGC in 2019 then it must be rough indeed [06:58:35] the problem was just that there are 3 superbank bits, but the original documentation all only talks about one of them [06:59:52] which doesn't matter if you're only dealing with the 36k available from fixed memory [07:00:11] but do matter if you want to take advantage of the full 64k of address space that the three superbank bits give you [07:00:46] this was when I was working out linear address decoding in the monitor [07:00:55] ah, I see [07:01:48] once I got that, the rest of the addressing scheme became super clear [07:02:01] I might have to make some diagrams, since none of the original ones fully capture it [07:04:57] also, I have a new thing to get drawings of on Monday [07:05:19] this will be our first North American drawing from NARA, if they have it [07:05:50] oh [07:06:58] what is it? [07:10:47] https://www.rrauction.com/preview_itemdetail.cfm?IN=5094 [07:10:50] this thing [07:11:02] ME 901-0666 fits within one of the boxes they have [07:11:09] and I have no idea what this thing is [07:11:13] and I want to know what it did :D [07:11:57] ah right, I remember this [07:12:51] " The Computer Buffer Unit was part of a system of pre-flight ground check out equipment to confirm the Apollo Guidance Computer (AGC) was fully operational for the lunar mission." [07:13:38] yes, but what exactly does it do [07:13:44] what signals go through it? clearly not all of them [07:13:49] those connectors aren't big enough, haha [07:29:52] alright, answered [07:30:24] it's too late for me to diagram up how I think about addressing so I'll do that tomorrow or something [07:31:18] haha, I'm sure the answer is adequate [07:31:22] I forgot how many errors are in that book :/ [07:31:47] I remember being similarly confused when I read it [07:51:29] I reworked the monitor board mechanical design today [07:51:41] still needs some signal rerouting but it looks much better [07:52:30] nice [07:52:33] it's all starting to come together: https://imgur.com/a/DtJCURY [08:03:40] yeah, looks quite good [08:08:16] thanks :D [08:35:28] currently tempted very much to get a MSC memo called "Skylab Launch Window Processor" from NARA [17:36:53] indy91: sounds pretty relevant to what you're working on. any idea how big it is? [17:38:25] also, good morning! [17:38:39] hey [17:38:42] no, no idea [18:16:55] that document was already on my list of MSC memos to scan at NARA [18:17:01] just quite down the list [18:19:06] if it is good then it has many pages [18:19:11] too many pages, haha [18:37:13] hehehe [18:38:00] the paradox of text documents at NARA [18:38:07] everything worth requesting... is not worth requesting [18:38:17] yep [18:39:09] best I can do is to keep the list updated, if Ron gets bored or has some time between scanning AGC schematics [18:39:21] yep [18:39:27] kind of how it worked out last time [18:39:44] at least that is what he said, that he had time between getting AGC schematic boxes [18:39:49] or if I ever actually take my trip there... [18:42:16] so for the 50th anniversary of Skylab [18:42:40] hehehe [00:21:46] hey, thewonderidiot [01:10:01] hey SteveH! [01:10:02] what's up? [01:10:52] I took about a week or so off from my project but put some time in today and got the PIPA emulator working. Made my PIPAFL light go out :) [01:11:14] nice! :D [01:11:21] that's awesome! [01:11:28] https://drive.google.com/open?id=1zwokaCMlV2YN4GEYrnfimAr55wRlV8aG [01:11:56] https://drive.google.com/open?id=1dnbBoEpL_6C9n2fYogqA9g6NzgUy3vad [01:12:27] beautiful [01:12:37] can it inject accelerations too? [01:12:39] The last link is a shot of the AGC monitoring the PIPA counters while I increment and decrement them via the gui [01:12:54] oh cool [01:13:00] Yes, I can manipulate the PIPA counters at will now. [01:13:51] sweet [01:13:55] so what's next on the plate now? [01:14:02] I transmit a delta to either a + or - register via SPI and the pulse train is modified to send the proper number of +/- pulses while mainting the +/- 3 "zero"value [01:14:19] Going to get the IMU CDU pulses working [01:15:09] Those will be one-shot timers triggered by the CDU strobes from the AGC [01:15:46] is there a CDU strobe output? [01:16:12] I vaguely remember a CDU clock output, but I think it's at a higher frequency than the pulses, isn't it? [01:17:47] ah, there is a CDU strobe, but it doesn't hit the main connector. guess it's only for internal gating? [01:18:18] I need to go back to the documentation, it's been a while. I thought the CDU pulses were variable duration based on angle and synced with a signal to the AGC, I could be wrong [01:18:56] I could also be confusing the radar interface with the IMU interface. Lot's of similar schemes with slight variations each [01:19:38] we really need to get a full set of CDU schematics, heh [01:19:54] yeah CDUSTB/ controls PINC/MINC/DINC generation internally [01:21:04] There's more than enough info in the available documents, the fun part is that every peripheral has a slightly different interface. Some are counting pulses, some are counting pulse width, and the pulse width counters are sometimes synched to a strobe line and sometimes free running. :) [01:21:49] I always found the CDU to be particularly confusing [01:22:03] because (I think) the maximum pulse rate coming out of the CDU is 6400pps [01:22:09] per channel [01:22:40] but the clock output to the CDU is 51.2kHz [01:22:55] Yeah, I backed into understanding the PIPA pulse trains, now I need to refresh what I've already forgotten about the CDUs [01:22:57] and I never found a clear answer for how the pulses are rate limited or aligned to that clock [01:24:02] I was running the PIPAs at +/- 4G on the LM for fun today.... [01:24:29] hehehe [01:24:59] I need to assemble the chassis for these HW emulators so I can get them all running at the same time. I currently only have the one board active so I disconnected the hook-up for upload/download to work on PIPA [01:25:25] Have all the parts, but it's been too cold in my garage to work on the sheet metal. [01:25:28] ah yeah [01:25:29] heh [01:26:24] I've been making solid progress on the monitor design. should be able to finish routing the PCB tonight: https://i.imgur.com/AtlQ4x4.png [01:26:29] I saw the latest video about the erasable memory module. Were you traveling for that one? [01:26:58] nah, the computer history museum is just down the road [01:27:45] here's the full monitor assembly: https://cad.onshape.com/documents/92cad92555e98e88fa5f5e38/w/0e5bae8ff640d26b83a1661a/e/e602bb611d754797fce920b7 [01:28:01] the first tab on the bottom (2003074) shows it plugged into tray A [01:28:08] Nice clean layout, that should work. Very convenient about the museum. Not much of that sort of thing in the Rochester, NY area... [01:29:14] how far away is the Cradle of Aviation museum from you? [01:32:00] about 360 miles to long island. I'm on the other end of the state. [01:32:09] ah damn [01:33:37] Yeah, NY state is about 400 - 450 miles wide. I'm over on the western side of the state right below the middle of lake Ontario [01:33:46] gotcha [01:34:37] I've heard rumblings that Grumman's set of aperture cards may have been transferred there, which could help in filling in the gaps missing from NARA Ft Worth [01:35:04] Interesting. [01:39:47] I gotta go but I'll be digging into the IMU CDU signals this week. I'll let ya know how it goes. [01:40:03] sounds good, looking forward to hearing about it :D [14:42:30] @indy91 good morning [14:42:37] hey [18:09:47] morning! [18:11:29] Hey [18:12:50] hey guys [18:16:31] what's up? [18:24:27] just putting another release of my Shuttle FDO MFD together. Just a few smaller updates. [20:22:13] I guess Don Eyles no longer has his DSKY [20:26:23] oh? what makes you say that? [20:26:37] it's up for auction [20:26:44] https://rrauction.com/preview_itemdetail.cfm?IN=5222 [20:26:50] unless he has more than one [20:26:56] "He retained the DSKY in 1978 when the LM cockpit simulator was dismantled and discarded. [20:26:57] " [20:27:12] hmm [20:27:17] maybe I read that wrong [20:27:26] it mentions Don a bunch of times, but doesn't say that he is the owne [20:27:28] owner [20:27:35] "the present owner, who was employed at the MIT Instrumentation Laboratory to design, build, and maintain the CM and LM cockpit simulators" [20:27:43] yeah, Don just grabbed a random DSKY [20:27:51] this one belongs to the guy who made the simulators [20:27:51] as you do [20:28:06] yeah, read that wrong. [20:28:15] I'm curious to see how high this gets [20:28:24] https://rrauction.com/preview_itemdetail.cfm?IN=5103 [20:28:28] this confuses me [20:28:29] I would love to have a DSKY... [20:28:45] it has a "HI GAIN ANT SCAN LIMIT" light [20:29:01] apparently manufactured in June 1969 [20:29:21] but I thought they had abandoned that light even before Apollo 7 [20:29:37] is it block I? [20:29:42] June 1969 [20:29:56] and it says Block II [20:30:10] so, we have an early CSM-101 Systems Handbook with that light [20:30:15] and the NASSP panels originally had it [20:30:27] then I figured out how the light would work and it would be on very often [20:30:37] well the auction says block II, but they can and have been wrong [20:30:41] and I did the research and thought I figured out it was not flown [20:30:55] 99% sure it's Block II [20:30:58] but june 69 is probably too late for that heh [20:30:58] yeah [20:31:06] looks exactly like in the CSM-101 Systems Handbook [20:31:54] ah nice [20:32:02] whoops, wrong window [20:32:09] do the later handbooks not show it? [20:32:13] nope [20:32:20] but we don't have any intermediate ones [20:32:29] next one is Apollo 15 or so [20:32:32] ahh [20:32:38] just, I thought this light wasn't even flown on Apollo 7 [20:32:40] or any mission [20:32:52] so, why make this in June 69 then [20:33:03] maybe the light was there, but not connected, so it never lit? [20:33:09] yeah, possible [20:36:00] CSM-101 and 104 [20:36:05] Systems Handbooks [20:37:03] COMMAND SERVICE MODULE SYSTEMS HANDBOOK CSM 108 ( COMMAND SERVICE MODULE 108 ) THROUGH CSM 111 [20:37:09] we don't have that, right? [20:38:40] don't think so [20:39:47] maybe worth adding to the next request from Lauren then [20:40:39] I forgot Smithsonian scanned their Apollo 11 CM in 3D [20:40:52] oh! they did [20:40:58] I forgot about that too [20:41:20] light is not there [20:41:33] but it almost looks like it was removed at some point [20:41:41] huh [20:41:44] it's different from the other blank ones [20:41:50] surely before the mission though [20:41:59] or maybe even covered up [20:42:14] I doubt it would be connected [20:43:10] sounds like that's probably it then [20:43:27] I guess it was decided, why bother changing the design if you can just cover up the light and not hook it up [20:43:36] could be [20:43:48] you run into the scan limit so many times [20:44:05] Apollo 13 had an issue with their HGA where it would cycle back and forth [20:44:19] the repeating alarms would be more annoying than the explosion [20:47:11] oh! [20:47:21] Apollo 8 technical debriefing [20:47:31] The only caution and warning lights that we [20:47:32] had on the entire flight was the high-gain [20:47:32] scan limit, the 0 2 high-rate during water [20:47:33] dump, and the fuel cell 2 during 0 2 purge, [20:47:33] and one crew alert light that worked quite [20:47:34] well. [20:48:01] so I guess Apollo 8 had the light and probably functional [20:50:48] oh interesting [20:54:05] http://www.collectspace.com/review/rickmulheirn/apollo10_cm03.jpg [20:54:07] Apollo 10 [20:54:15] terrible photo, but it looks the same as Apollo 11 [20:54:24] a dark spot where the light would have been [20:58:48] https://www.flickr.com/photos/projectapolloarchive/21315590814/in/album-72157659042210300/ [20:59:08] almost not to see [20:59:11] but I think it's there [20:59:21] if functional or not is another story [21:02:34] oh man, that is some fine detail scouring haha [21:03:11] seems likely that if it was not covered in 9, then it would still have been connected [21:03:13] it helps if you know what you are looking for :D [21:04:54] haha true [21:06:55] a bunch of text that barely fits on a single light [21:23:35] haha yeah that does make it stand out [21:23:52] curious that they didn't decide to abbreviate it to HGA or something to make it fit better [21:31:36] still haven't heard back from NARA on whether they have a drawing for that computer buffer thing [21:35:37] NARA is still buffering I guess [21:35:39] try a refresh [21:40:12] hopefully it's because they're too busy processing Ron's application :P [21:49:43] sure [22:07:07] night! [17:05:50] morning! [17:18:33] Hi Everybody [17:18:42] First time on the IRC [17:21:39] hello, welcome! [17:23:26] I have a few questions. I know a little bit of C++ and have been messing around with NASSP for a few years, but never got in contact. After posting about the MCC issue for SV update on the forum I wondered if there is any need for basic code cleanup and documentation for the 8.0 release [17:24:06] code cleanup is probably something that NASSP can always use, haha [17:24:32] and documentation as well, in this stage of NASSP 8.0 [17:25:43] I've also seen your issue on Github [17:25:50] during FC purging [17:26:17] I've seen that before as well, didn't get to researching that yet [17:27:17] II finally got around to doing a full apollo 7 using the orbiter2016 branch so im making sure to document any weirdness possibly from the transition to the orbiter beta. [17:28:57] II have been looking into editing the label.tree file for earth to get the AGC landmarks working right. [17:29:34] IIt doesn't seem too difficult using available tools. The only difficulty will be sorting the landmarks onto the proper tiles [17:30:27] yeah, I think we will have to edit that file [17:30:38] I dislike it when we have to overwrite a default Orbiter file [17:30:47] but I think we don't really have a choice [17:33:16] I'm almost suprised that the P27 PAD was the first big issue with the MCC on Apollo 7 [17:33:36] I made a lot of changes to the MCC and hadn't tested Apollo 7 or 8 so far with it [17:34:13] II was able to activate the legacy .mkr files. They seemed to work ok for my purposes using the data from the Apollo 7 Update Forms document [17:34:51] As far as I can tell the MCC seemed to work perfect except for that P27 issue which appears fixed [17:35:02] good [17:35:19] yeah, it definitely was broken. There was some special code that got removed for "generic" P27 PADs [17:35:39] I am confused about the entry procedure though. The checklist was confusing and I couldn't find much info. [17:35:58] Is there a manual control test before CMC takeover? [17:37:11] I looked for mission documentation about how the crew did the entry [17:38:03] the checklist might need some improvements, could be [17:38:19] nothing Orbiter 2016 or NASSP 8 specific though, just in general [17:38:48] I think I did the Apollo 7 checklists, but haven't looked at that since the NASSP 7 release [17:38:52] most of* [17:39:13] there definitely is a bit of time before giving control to the CMC [17:40:26] first part is flown manually, until after 0.05G [17:44:02] I'll be back in a bit [17:45:23] hi tcirre93_! [18:01:06] Hi! [18:01:29] Any tips on flying the apollo 7 Entry? [18:11:37] back [18:12:16] which part exactly? [18:14:27] manual up to P67, then a check if the downrange error value is within the limit (100 NM) and then you can give control to the CMC [18:27:46] In the checklist it says to fly the lift vector until the 0.2 G time. Is this the transition point to automatic mode [18:29:16] lift vector up that probably means, right? [18:29:53] I think the transition is still a little bit later [18:30:05] first you would roll to 55° left or right [18:30:11] that's the Backup Bank Angle (BBA) [18:30:43] if you are in daylight you could even look through the upper hatch, it has markings for that 55° angle [18:31:20] and then after the manual roll and after the CMC has transitioned to P67, then you give it control [18:31:34] I think that's how it was supposed to work [18:32:06] if I remember correctly the actual mission kept it under manual control for a while longer, but that's pretty much crew preference [18:33:57] or just fly it manually all the way using the error needles (so CMC guidance, but not control) [18:47:14] indy91, sadly no luck on the rope jumper modules, but they did find 8 cards for ME901-0666, so hopefully it will have some answers about what that thing is [18:56:45] the buffer [18:57:58] so you need to do some guessing with the rope jumper then [19:23:45] San Diego Air and Space Museum has some Apollo 9 checklist that they photographed and put on Flickr [19:25:57] hmm [19:26:25] LM Rendezvous Activation Checklist. That is privately owned, I have contacted the owner, who sent me a few photos [19:26:33] these are the same photos, same blue background [19:27:43] it's lower quality, but probably all pages [19:34:30] oh nice! [19:36:18] I wonder if they put this anywhere else in better quality [19:36:50] link? [19:37:52] https://www.flickr.com/photos/sdasmarchives/albums/72157705290322601 [19:38:01] all pages there [19:38:25] oh yeah that is very small [19:38:49] all readable I think [19:38:55] which is the important part [19:39:03] they were purportedly taken with a DSLR, so there must be much better versions somewhere [19:39:34] I know that they exist, because I have them [19:39:36] a few pages [19:39:39] the owner sent them to me [19:39:42] ah, right [19:40:30] 900x598 versus 4288x2848 in one example [19:45:52] very nice to have the complete one [19:46:03] now we just need the other two Apollo 9 LM Activation Checklists :D [19:46:29] well, more like 2.5, the EVA Checklist only activates a very limited number of systems [19:47:30] I hope the Smithsonian releases scans of all their Apollo 11 checklists for the anniversary [19:47:34] that would be nice [19:11:05] afternoon [19:14:15] hey [19:14:50] what's up? [19:15:49] NARA is frustrating me haha [19:16:20] the archivist that did the last scan for me still hasn't picked up the phone to take payment information [19:16:29] I really wish this system wasn't so antiquated [19:18:34] investing money in a good system would appear as wasting taxpayer money. Or something like that :D [19:18:42] yeah, yeah [19:19:03] much better to waste taxpayer time :D [19:19:10] lol [19:21:33] In Germany it would be a much better system, just with 12 separate steps and 23 forms to fill out [19:21:49] hahaha [19:21:55] okay I appreciate that it's not that then :D [19:23:23] so you are getting drawings of that buffer thing then [19:24:13] yeah, 12 cards [19:26:21] I still have to go through the Apollo 9 rendezvous activation checklist [19:27:08] one interesting thing is the part for the ascent stage burn to depletion [19:27:47] it has two separate "opportunities", with different TIG and DV [19:28:23] which probably means insertion into a specific orbital plane [19:28:31] two different burn to depletions, with different DVs? [19:28:45] yeah [19:29:00] so in one of the cases more fuel has already been expended or something? [19:29:25] no, I think the target orbit is the same [19:29:53] mainly the out-of-plane component is different [19:30:39] so the two TIGs are probably two intersections with the specific target orbit plane [19:32:04] will have been updated in real time of course [19:32:54] if things take longer than expected it simply provides a second opportunity for that orbit [19:36:17] that checklist covers everything in the LM for the activation on rendezvous day and the picks up after redocking [19:37:00] Apollo 9 had a lot of checklists [19:38:20] Apollo 5 left a lot to be desired and tested:D [19:41:16] hahaha [19:41:23] but that made it so much more fun to us to figure out! [19:53:11] yeah [20:58:40] night! [17:05:48] morning! [17:14:02] hey Mike [17:14:07] hey [17:14:08] what's up? [17:14:48] adding more MSC memos to my NARA list... [17:15:06] hehe [17:15:32] they actually picked up the phone for me this morning so hopefully I'll be getting that drawing today :D [17:16:31] oh, great [17:17:13] hopefully I don't have to drill too far down in to child drawings to figure out what it was used for [17:19:34] we know it was GSE, right? [17:19:46] we know that it was GSE, and interfaced with the AGC for some purpose [17:20:28] ground equipment could still be many things. Might not even be on the mobile launcher [17:21:03]