[16:05:32] NASSP Logging has been started by thymo [16:13:30] hey Thymo [16:14:41] Hey, did you find a fix for the mobile launcher issue in the launch scenarios? [16:17:07] the bug that prevents it from launching? [16:21:16] morning! [16:23:37] hey Mike [16:24:03] what's up? [16:24:29] making the RTCC MFD better [16:26:59] nice :D [16:30:23] more like MCC displays [16:30:52] the most recent RTCC document I got from UHCL has a complete list of MCC TV displays, but just a list, it doesn't actually show them [16:31:24] ahhhhh that is tantalizing [16:31:27] I know the document number which would have the full description of the displays, but haven't found it anywhere yet [16:31:34] it is from Philco [16:31:42] what is it? [16:31:44] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philco [16:33:04] same company that made most of the integrated circuits in the flight AGCs :) [16:34:12] MCCH Operational [16:34:13] Requirements Control [16:34:13] D [16:34:14] o [16:34:14] c [16:34:15] u [16:34:15] m [16:34:16] e [16:34:19] n [16:34:23] t [16:34:25] oops [16:34:27] MCCH Operational Requirements Control Document [16:34:42] hahahahaha [16:34:47] PHO-TR485B [16:35:09] the restricted NTRS has something like it [16:35:23] bit outdated maybe, but I guess I could request it [16:35:40] yeah, doesn't seem like there's any reason not to release that one [16:38:35] the new UHCL people are as good as Lauren [16:38:57] 500 document, first told me it could take a few days, then a few hours later they already had it done [16:39:17] 500 pages document* [16:40:14] what the restricted NTRS has is all the wrong volume [16:42:29] a later version of PHO-TR485B is called [16:42:35] "Skylab Display Formats Specifications" [16:42:51] so it's PHO-TR485B in any case [16:44:08] oh that's awesome to hear [16:44:45] would be even better if the JSC History Collection website was actually working [16:44:52] heh [16:45:29] seems like it's working for me. what's it doing for you? [16:47:11] lots of loading without success [16:47:13] http://historycollection.jsc.nasa.gov/ [16:47:52] mm [16:47:57] are you using a different link? [16:48:32] no [16:48:39] well, there's always the big spreadsheet [16:48:48] right [16:49:46] maybe geoblocked, lol [16:55:10] indy91: Sorry, I had to pick something up. Yes, the one that prevented me from launching on 8. [16:55:39] yeah, it was two issues that worked together and broke it, so fixing either one will make it work [16:55:50] both require a small edit of the scenario [16:56:07] look for [16:56:08] ML:ProjectApollo\ML [16:56:10] in the scenaro [16:56:19] a few lines below should be [16:56:19] STATE 4 [16:56:23] or another number [16:56:35] just add 1 to whatever number you have in your scenario [16:58:58] Ah, great. Originally you mentioned I had to start over. I might as well start over anyway, I was only about an hour into prelaunch. [16:59:52] oh [16:59:56] that was a different issue, haha [17:00:06] I think that requires you to start over, yes [17:01:06] !! I just got one of the banks right for Luminary 69 R2 [17:03:59] oh nice [17:04:10] coasting integration routine change? [17:04:20] that also added two padloaded parameters [17:04:23] yeah [17:04:32] right, and I had a question for you about that [17:04:40] any idea where they might have added those two? :D [17:05:42] oh yeah [17:06:27] E3J22R2M and E32C31RM [17:06:31] in all later versions [17:06:47] right, but the exact placement for Luminary 69R2 [17:06:54] uhh [17:06:55] needs to be right for the banksum to be right [17:06:57] the same? :D [17:07:53] I'll look if I can find anything [17:07:55] no idea though [17:08:59] oh actually [17:09:02] it might be the same [17:09:04] yeah [17:09:08] it's empty space there [17:09:12] in 69R0 [17:09:22] either the same or one higher [17:09:28] er, lower [17:16:27] what was the other change from R0 to R2 again? [17:17:11] I thought that was it [17:17:32] well, Revision 0, Revision 2 [17:17:37] so it's 2 revisions [17:17:42] did they get it wrong on the first try? [17:17:46] I believe so [17:17:53] ah, I see [17:21:18] GOT IT [17:21:29] need to review but I think I have all banksums correct for 69R2 :D [17:21:53] these drawings are the best [17:22:01] there was one other key in one of the Luminary memos [17:22:31] the R-2 model was added to main Luminary in revision 95 [17:22:35] http://www.ibiblio.org/apollo/Documents/LUM78_text.pdf [17:23:03] "As a further result of this PCN the value of TIMEDELT in R41 was changed from 15 seconds to 20 seconds thus overriding PCN 758, which had increased it from 10 to 15 seconds in revision 92." [17:23:19] so changing TIMEDELT from 10 to 20 was the secret to getting one of the banks to come out correctly [17:26:15] awesome work [17:27:02] as there is no padload change we could use that version immediately [17:27:17] the only issue with old scenarios might be if it is currently iterating [17:27:26] coasting* [17:27:55] well there's a padload addition [17:28:00] does that not matter? [17:28:16] oh, Orbiter doesn't simulate that addition [17:28:21] so we have it set to 0 [17:28:33] ah nice [17:28:53] they are one location higher, for what it's worth [17:28:56] lower [17:28:58] damnit [17:29:05] relevant for my padload worksheet [17:29:10] 1351 and 1352 [17:29:45] I wonder [17:29:55] should we keep using the old version for Apollo 9? [17:30:26] might as well, since it is technically closer [17:30:28] not that it makes a difference in Earth orbit [17:30:36] haha true [17:30:47] unless the TIMEDELT change affects both [17:31:55] I doubt it is relevant [17:35:23] TIMEDELT is the same for Earth and Moon orbits [17:36:29] right, my point being that the change from 10s to 20s will change the behavior a bit in earth orbit too [17:36:38] yeah, could be [17:36:48] it's just for a 1703 alarm though [17:36:51] and those are rare [17:36:58] but if it happens the behavior could be different [17:37:07] after all there must be a reason to change it [17:37:12] aha [17:37:16] gotcha [17:37:30] alright well, I'm going to go get breakfast before I get toooo distracted [17:37:46] when I get back I'll clean up my changes, make a pull request to virtualagc, and send you my 69R2 binary [17:38:02] great [17:38:33] how likely do you think it is you completely broken the coasting integration routine? [17:39:18] I'd say chances are small... I've essentially just copied changes straight over from Luminary 99 [17:39:28] I had to put QUALITY1 and QUALITY2 in a different bank [17:39:38] but it's all interpreted code so that shouldn't matter [17:40:29] there are some differences that I left out [17:40:44] GOBAQUE calling INT-ABRT, which causes a POODOO [17:40:49] that's new in 99 and doesn't fit in 69R2 [17:41:12] and in the end, the checksum now works out [17:41:14] and the SETITCTR chunk which is for Lambert stuff [17:41:20] yeah, checksum is now correct [17:41:38] I'll put it in an Apollo 10 scenario, should be easy to tell if it works right [17:44:02] AlexB_88, the installation guide only says [17:44:04] "3. Install D3D9Client: " [17:44:12] no link and not specified which version of it [17:44:27] at least it should say to use the version for the Orbiter Beta, I think [17:45:06] oh [17:45:10] reading comprehension [17:45:12] not good [17:46:30] oh [17:46:38] and even more lack of reading comprehension [17:46:39] damn [17:52:29] I should stop reading too quickly :D [18:03:07] I added a step to "Install a recent Microsoft DirectX Runtime" before it I guess you didnt see it after it ;) [18:04:21] yeah, something like that :D [18:08:02] I think I might change the link directly to the D3D9 client site instead of the forum post [18:08:04] http://users.kymp.net/~p501474a/D3D9Client/ [18:08:38] the forum post leads to that link anyway, so just one step less [18:08:47] ah, he is hosting all of it there now, I see [18:09:00] yeah [18:16:12] changes made [18:19:32] also removed all references to "Alpha" [18:20:45] great [18:26:36] ah, new AGC video [18:26:54] oh great [18:27:14] oh nice [18:34:23] ah, Sundial [18:48:10] thewonderidiot, as you mentioned in the video, causing an abort is as easy as pressing a button. That is all done by the control electronics I implemented relay by relay a few years ago, haha. [18:48:30] :D [18:48:42] abort stage is one of the few things that will override an engine stop, I guess [18:49:12] makes perfect sense, haha [18:50:04] it is so easy, that a spurious contact in the abort switch almost causes a mission to fail! [18:50:05] oh man I never got to see Carl's LM firing its thrusters because I always had eyes on the screen [18:50:05] that is cool [18:50:18] hehehe yeah [18:51:09] getting the engine to stop then is a bit convoluted [18:51:25] if you have the engine arm switch in ASC and the abort stage button pressed the engine won't automatically stop [18:51:44] when I do an ascent and get distracted I sometimes fail to disarm one of those two [18:51:50] so I'm heavily overburning [18:51:57] AlexB_88, how often has this happened to you? [18:55:32] hmm I always go ASC disarm at 500 fps to go [18:55:51] yes [18:55:58] that is what the checklist [18:56:00] says [18:56:17] but then I tab out for a moment and miss doing that :D [18:56:36] happened to me more often than it should [18:57:09] but better overburning than underburning [18:57:23] haha [18:59:43] oh I noticed the "disappearing moon" bug on the yaw maneuver, hate it when that happens :D [19:03:54] disappearing moon? [19:07:05] in the video ;) [19:07:30] Mikes landing, the yaw maneuver to heads-up [19:07:52] ah, of coure [19:07:53] course [19:10:01] looks like NASSP got lots of action with the real AGC! [19:14:02] oh yeah, dozens of landings :D [19:18:42] besides from the landing demonstrations, did any of the audience members try a landing afterwards? [19:20:14] there wasn't time at the MIT museum because the room was always packed and there were always people waiting outside for the next demo [19:20:36] ah right [19:20:37] but I did let a couple of people try P64-landing (with virtualagc) at the Cradle of Aviation museum [19:20:45] they crashed pretty spectacularly :D [19:21:00] as I did on my first attempts, heh [19:21:03] haha [19:22:38] I crashed P64 multiple times as well [19:22:46] before we implemented the LR [19:22:51] hehehe [19:24:11] I guess you told them that they could download this and try it at home...not with a real AGC of course, but I guess Virtual AGC must not show any difference from a user perspective [19:24:33] yep, always made a point of that when starting up NASSP [19:30:01] nice [19:31:23] oh, earlier today I got a document from Graham2001, who used to search through NTRS a lot for NASSP, many years ago [19:31:40] and it's one of those documents added to NTRS after they stopped allowing mass archiving [19:31:47] but before the great purge of 2013 [19:32:03] so it's on the restricted list, but was available, but not anymore [19:32:08] it's a Skylab deorbit study [19:32:10] with a SPS burn [19:32:47] and it has detailed procedures and CMC erasable memory changes for how to accomplish that [19:33:15] Skylark had a special DAP for attitude control while docked to Skylab, but that is only for RCS [19:34:30] but they made it work somehow anyway [19:34:39] with gimbal travel limits [19:34:52] which is probably what the lengthy erasable changes is for [19:47:48] interesting [19:58:49] indy91, just testing another re-entry with 16 [19:59:19] 9.1 NM left on the EMS [19:59:27] good enough [19:59:31] yeah [19:59:57] one of these days I'll implement a reentry simulation [20:00:08] which will result in a more accurate value [20:00:10] for the EMS [20:00:24] right now I am just copying the calculations that the AGC does [20:17:40] right [20:19:28] there we go [20:19:44] made a tool to compare bugger words from the master tape deck drawings with a rope file [20:19:54] LUM69R2 confirmed to match [20:20:49] nice [20:20:59] if you would get a program, where you have no idea what it is [20:21:11] could you identify it with the checksum? [20:22:06] https://drive.google.com/open?id=1gG24KIplulWQiL89cdE6JMpueFG9Zprv [20:22:14] depending, maybe [20:22:40] we only know Colossus and Luminary banksums from these drawings [20:22:56] but combined with that and other info we can probably identify any program now [20:23:01] maybe not exact revision [20:24:03] right [20:26:26] coasting integration is not stuck [20:26:32] that's already good, haha [20:26:36] it is slow [20:26:42] but probably normal [20:27:48] so thanks! [20:31:03] :D [20:34:42] yeah, seems good [20:38:30] Hey Alex, have there been some changes to the CM ECS? I'm working on the prelaunch and I used to have to open the direct o2 valve just past halfway like the checklist calls for. [20:38:42] But now I get the required flow at the first notch. [20:39:31] could that be another rotary switch that now starts at position? [20:39:52] answer is no [20:40:09] No, the flow seems too high on all settings. [20:40:23] ah, iirc the flow is right, but the meter is wrong [20:40:43] or rather, in the wrong position in the ECS and our ECS is not detailed enough to have it at the right position [20:41:21] the flow was changed to the correct values at some point [20:41:22] I see. But if I put it past halfway I'll get an o2 flow hi alarm. [20:41:28] yeah [20:41:35] So that should be fixed in the long run [20:41:40] yes [20:43:23] that change is quite old [20:43:36] Ryan made it when we started working on LM pressurization [20:44:05] I've also got 4+ psi differential pressure hatch pressure on the pad. [20:44:18] Should be 0 [20:44:49] should it really? [20:45:07] Apollo 8? [20:45:16] Well according to the checklist mfd it should. [20:45:44] Yes, I'm on 8 [20:45:45] which mission, at which point [20:45:58] T-4h on prelaunch [20:46:01] oh [20:46:05] I thought in space [20:46:10] then I know what it is [20:46:18] No haha. [20:46:20] you said pad [20:46:33] I just read too quickly [20:46:34] Launchpad :) [20:46:36] not the first time today [20:47:03] the CSM tunnel is connected to vacuum if it is not connected to the LM [20:47:23] unfortunately we don't have a connection to the "environment", whatever that is [20:47:48] Right [20:48:39] Orbiter uses an atmosphere model to simulate pressure. Maybe there's an API to access that model? Or if not calculate pressure based on altitude? [20:48:40] the cabin pressure relief switches and the hatch have a very bad system that helps them to appear that they work right [20:48:56] yes we could, just needs lots of changes [20:49:55] we just have a vent class, derived from the tank class [20:50:01] it appears as always pressure 0 [20:50:07] so that's how we simulate vacuum [20:50:24] and then we have an Earth "tank" [20:50:46] but it has a constant pressure [20:51:51] we probably would need a new system that violates the laws of physics [20:52:21] just creates air when the pressure outside is higher than in the CSM [20:52:40] feel free to look into it [21:03:27] night! [21:03:30] night [07:00:35] .tell indy91 I'm trying to figure out what changed between Colossus 236 and 237... no luck so far. GAP apparently didn't do the asterisk thing in mid-68 [07:03:24] .tell indy91 it's in bank 31, which narrows it down to R34, P23, S30.1, S31.1, or R35 [07:46:01] hey thewonderidiot [07:46:43] if it affects the guidance equations it would be in revision 3 of the GSOP [07:47:03] first thing there PCR 519, Calculation of phi in R34 [07:48:29] it could also be 524 "Provide MAX Display for Perigee and Apogee in P30, P31, R30" [07:48:38] that might affect S30.1 or S31.1, maybe [07:50:36] not sure about last minute changes to R35 [07:50:43] even the GSOP says it is not very useful, lol [07:50:49] and it was removed not long after [07:51:51] hmmm [07:52:10] it does says revision 3 of the GSOP on the R35 pages though [07:52:11] so I don't know [07:53:45] the R34 change is on 5.6-37 [07:53:56] but I don't know what the calculation would have been before [07:54:17] phi being in R3 is the only thing that distinguishes it from R31 [07:55:16] ah, Sundisk also already had V85 [07:55:52] hard to decipher, but probably also phi, so they maybe just changed the calculation method [07:56:44] Sundance just doesn't have R34 [07:58:55] seems like not quite enough info to reconstruct it :/ [07:59:43] trying to think what the calculation of phi would have been before... [08:02:53] mid 1967 GSOP has the earlier definition, but doesn't give the equations [08:07:10] do you know how big the change was? [08:08:05] nope! just that it is only in bank 31 [08:08:08] looking at this angle definition, the change could have been very, very small [08:08:35] the banksum is quite different, so it can't be a small change of a single constant or something [08:08:48] ok [08:09:33] unless the scaling makes it a big change from an octal point of view [08:10:29] specifically, the bugger word changed from 66022 to 40250 [08:12:56] difficult to tell unfortunately [08:15:32] GSOP section 4 just says the calculation is wrong [08:15:50] so PCR 519 would have been a fix, not a definition change [08:15:53] well, maybe both [08:16:10] the code uses the same routine for both R31 and R34 [08:16:22] just with R31FLAG as the distinguishing factor [08:16:43] so most changes would affect both routines [08:18:39] hmmmm interesting, okay [08:18:43] that might help narrow things down [08:18:58] I'm gonna go to bed before I get too deep into this though haha [08:19:00] goodnight! [08:19:03] R34LOS is in bank 31, but I very much doubt they got this wrong, haha [08:19:05] good night! [10:39:13] Hi [10:46:55] hey Thymo [10:47:25] Working through the insertion checklist right now. [10:48:40] Launched into an 106.0 by 101.0 orbit [10:50:18] hmm, that's not that great [10:50:24] although [10:50:26] when did you check that [10:50:30] just after insertion? [10:50:45] a bunch of minutes later the orbit will have already changed due to nonspherical gravity [10:51:04] Just now probably 10 minutes after. [10:51:52] yeah, could be normal then [10:52:07] Yeah, now it's up to 106.7 by 100.8 [10:52:08] I have some Apollo 8 MCC updates coming soon [10:52:28] they only affect T+35h and later [10:52:33] so might be a bit before you get there [13:41:34] hey [13:41:40] Hey Alex [14:20:42] Looks like something broke in the timers. My event timer switch is in stop, timer is still happily counting. [14:22:48] And now I can't reproduce it. Recycling the switch to stop did stop it. It doesn't resume counting on reload. [14:23:41] hey Alex [14:23:47] Thymo, I did make a change to the timers [14:24:18] but it should only affect reset [14:24:23] so it counting in stop is weird [14:24:52] I'll keep an eye on it to see if it happens again. [14:25:07] how old was that scenario? [14:25:27] Started today [14:25:33] Apollo 8 MCC [14:25:51] ok [14:27:42] and it was the main panel event timer? [14:27:47] Yes [14:28:26] The LHEB event timer was running but not in stop. [14:30:18] I don't see how my change can be responsible [14:30:37] but I also don't see why this should suddenly happen after I did the change [14:32:31] and it was running normally? [14:32:33] not weirdly? [14:33:50] It was just counting normally but the start/stop switch was in stop. [14:34:03] Going normal and back to stop stopped the clock also. [14:34:24] As a test I put it back in stop and reloaded the sim, but it didn't start running. [14:35:17] I'm just not seeing it in the code [14:35:46] although [14:35:53] I have an idea [14:37:12] you don't happen to have the THC in CCW, right? :D [14:38:05] I don't. But I did wiggle it around a while ago. That's probably it. [14:38:13] It is [14:38:22] Oh crap [14:38:29] I shouldn't have tested that. [14:38:45] I guess I don't need my SIVB anymore. :p [14:39:50] are you still in EPO? :D [14:40:26] Yeah, and I just armed the SECS logic for TLI [14:40:36] I took a break [14:40:52] ok [14:40:59] trying to figure out if it is normal behavior [14:41:41] what exactly did you do with the THC? [14:41:47] just to CCW for a short moment? [14:42:41] the main issue I wanted to fix with my change is that starting the event timer that way would only work once [14:43:24] because the event timer code couldn't deal with the reset from an abort signal properly [14:43:35] so I saved something in the SECS instead and it was all right messy [14:43:45]