[20:25:36] NASSP Logging has been started by thymo [20:25:47] in SundanceXXX, the P47 display that pops up at 1 minute will pop up right away -- in Sundance306ish, it will not pop appear until the V82 display shows up first and is dismissed with PRO [20:25:59] yay Guenter! [20:26:02] Guenter! [20:26:06] :D [20:26:15] you missed hours of Sundance conversation, Guenter [20:26:36] doing good here, Niklas and I have been piecing together Sundance in secret haha [20:26:40] how was your holiday? [20:28:21] thewonderidiot, unfortunately I can't check how that would behave in other ropes, as only Sundance waits a minute to show the DV display [20:28:34] I saw that email yeah, nice work. I enjoyed being away from it all for a while. I desparately needed some time to unwind and get out of the house. [20:28:44] yeah I feel that [20:29:12] indy91_: we might be able to change that, just for testing :P [20:29:15] Normally when I'm on holiday I get the urge to code some things for fun, this year I barely even touched my laptop. [20:29:52] got to see lots of nature or mostly lots of sun? [20:30:11] Last year I did some work on AndroidAGC and getting the aux mem in yaAGC (not finished, yet) [20:30:29] Yeah, I was in an area called the Veluwe, you might have heard about it [20:30:43] Had rain the first week, second week was great [20:31:05] We took this little inflatable boat and when to some towns at the other side of the lake [20:31:28] ah that sounds great [20:31:44] Took my mountainbike out for a spin as well. Next to that I gave Generation Kill a read [20:32:10] nice :D [20:32:15] Oh and finished the paperwork for my amateur radio callsign and made my first contacts :D [20:32:59] haha awesome [20:33:10] You can pick your own call here, mine is PD2TVB. [20:33:32] Still need to get an antenna up on the roof though and get myself a transceiver [20:33:37] hehehe [20:33:39] I like the 2TV [20:35:30] P = Netherlands, D = Novice class, 2 = picked, TVB = my initials [20:37:19] I also got invited by a colleague to join the signal service with the dutch red cross to setup radio networks and be a dispatcher at big events (read: I can play with expensive toys for free). [20:37:20] just happened to nearly result in designation of the CSM vacuum test :D [20:38:17] sounds fun [20:38:53] My grandpa has those expensive toys, as I probably talked about before, but I mainly to go help fix an antenna and not play around with it [20:40:55] one of those antennas that is in a long line from the roof of the house to a pole in a corner of the property [20:41:05] got stuck in a tree in a storm [20:41:12] involved lots of tree and pole climbing... [20:41:23] oh man [20:42:12] Yeah, those are HF antenna's they are huge [20:42:40] An antenna is typically a quarter of the length for the band you want to use it for [20:43:09] So if he wants to go on the 80m wavelength band you've got a 20m long antenna [20:43:34] yeah, could be about 20m [20:45:16] Could be shorter a shorter one that he tunes to that band but situations differ [20:47:20] thewonderidiot, they are talking quite a bit about DSKY display in the technical debriefing, but I haven't been able to get anything useful out of it for our Sundance work [20:48:35] darn [20:50:20] my feeling right now is that I'm pretty happy to keep this implementation of UNK7766, since it corresponds time-wise (this was changed in Colossus and Luminary in May, when they would have been finalizing 302), and makes sense contextually (only called from extended verbs using mark displays) [20:50:40] lol, David Scott complaining that TFF in V82 wasn't accurate :D [20:50:42] and implementing it takes six instructions, which is the right size [20:50:44] hahaha [20:50:56] they aren't hyperbolic, but it's a conic calculation. Still funny [20:51:24] yeah, I also think it's a reasonable guess for UNK7766 [20:52:10] I will call it SETXDSP for now then :) [20:53:22] in that case I think that wraps up Sundance306ish [20:53:41] unless one of you guys finds an issue flying Apollo 9 [20:54:11] oh, can you test to make sure I didn't break DVMON? [20:54:11] yeah, I'll fly through the mission again [20:54:23] do a quick DPS burn? [20:55:22] whatever works to make sure my attempt to delay it one cycle didn't completely break it :P [20:56:02] well completely break could be two things [20:56:07] it going mad when it's running [20:56:10] I'll notice that [20:56:14] or it doesn't do much at all [20:56:25] I guess I can test both... [20:57:33] ah, found a good scenario on the first try. Hopefully being in P40 already doesn't break things [20:57:38] as I got the restart again [20:57:48] and a program alarm, didn't look at it, probably 1502 [20:59:19] heh [21:00:45] normal burn was fine [21:01:00] now I let it fail [21:06:36] hmm [21:06:45] well I think it behaves as before [21:06:49] but I do not get V97 [21:06:53] I get V99 [21:07:12] and it fires the +X thrusters, which might be normal [21:07:23] yeah V97 doesn't exist in Sundance [21:07:48] at least as far as I know, unless it was added to 306 [21:08:05] ah right [21:08:14] but yeah, I think this behaves as before in Sundance [21:08:24] based on offsets I think it was not added in 306 [21:08:26] cool :) [21:10:47] Sundance GSOP section 4 concurs [21:10:49] V97 is spare [21:12:03] and what it tries to do is set up a engine restart [21:12:18] that's why it shows V99 and fires the RCS for ullage [21:13:01] makes sense [21:14:28] so if we were to suddenly find the Sundance banksums, how close do you think would Sundance306ish be? :D [21:14:53] oh boy lol [21:14:56] I honestly have no idea [21:15:09] my hope is that we are mostly there [21:15:33] but there are a lot of banks that aren't referenced by 306 [21:15:42] and some banks where it only looks at the beginning [21:15:47] so there are a lot of potential changes hiding [21:15:53] er [21:16:05] when I say "not referenced by 306" I mean "not referenced by our module B6" [21:16:18] yeah, that's what I thought [21:16:41] at this point though, I think just having banksums would be enough to resolve most remaining unknowns [21:16:49] it's really too bad that drawing was missing from NARA [21:17:44] surely they have to be somewhere [21:17:58] yeah [21:18:02] some prelaunch AGC test procedures maybe [21:18:55] speaking of, I need to spend more time looking through those LM test procedures that are mixed in with the engineering drawings [21:19:06] I know there are ones dedicated to Aurora and Luminary [21:19:12] I wonder if there were every any Sundance ones [21:20:26] ah, I found a passage in the Tindallgrams why they added P68 [21:20:39] just looking through it searching for "display", you never know [21:21:47] well, nothing on Sundance displays there [21:22:56] good night! [21:23:15] night! [14:10:59] n7275, hey, if I wasn't clear enough about that in the forum thread, you can of course do the modifications for the Apollo 7 NCC2 maneuver in the checklist file, if you want to [14:11:50] oh sure. I was planning on adding it. [14:12:00] ah great [14:12:43] with the checklist files it's just annoying if more than one person is working on it, as git doesn't detect it as code, but nobody is working on Apollo 7 so it's all good [14:13:14] I'll be doing updates to the Apollo 9 LM checklist file, as we can now use Sundance for it [14:15:16] nice! I've been watching the update memos from Mike [14:15:35] Guenter was offline for most of this month unfortunately [14:15:46] but Mike and I have been working on that through all this time [14:17:03] I managed to actually complete the full rendesvous the other day [14:17:12] first the first time [14:17:22] yeah I saw your screenshots [14:17:32] Apollo 7 is more difficult than you would think :D [14:17:50] have to do manual sextant marks, not the nice automatic RR marks in the LM [14:18:11] and things don't converge as nicely as in lunar orbit [14:18:17] P35 DVs are jumping around [14:18:22] that kind of stuff [14:20:01] I'm a better engineer than I am an astronaut [14:20:07] by far [14:20:46] it also helped that they had 3 astronauts to do everything [14:21:27] writing down numbers and checking charts for the backup solutions for TPI and TPM is usually where the workload gets too much for 1 person [14:21:34] Hahaha, yeah it gets busy with only one [14:22:04] P35 gave me all sorts of headaches [14:22:52] it can do that sometimes haha [14:23:40] it wouldn't accept my marks when I started it [14:24:47] hmm, weird [14:28:03] but you were in the display with V51 showing and otherwise blank? [15:13:48] yeah [15:18:31] I expected it to show the activity light for a bit, and then go on the the mark confirmation (iirc its V06N49, but I might be wrong) but it just sat there on V51 [15:19:03] I eventually got it but I can't remember how [15:53:26] yeah, 06 49 is the mark confirmation [15:53:42] normally there is a limit for it, if the update due to the mark is small, that display doesn't get shown [15:53:56] but on Apollo 7 they set it up, per padload, to shown on every mark [15:56:39] weird [15:58:01] I'll try it again later. [15:58:55] I'm sure it's a known issue, somewhat already had it, but it's been a while since I did the Apollo 7 rendezvous [16:27:03] morning! [16:30:10] hey Mike [16:31:09] what's up? [16:32:08] started doing Apollo 9 checklist updates for Sundance [16:32:24] significant differences like P30 showing N82 and not N81 for the DV [16:32:27] :D [16:32:36] hehehe [16:32:45] btw, could there be any padload difference to SundanceXXX? [16:33:44] nope, I didn't move erasables [16:35:33] ah, good [16:38:16] well, DKDB is now initialized on fresh start, so you technically don't have to padload it anymore [16:38:35] but I think you do that in Luminary anyways, so just do whatever you do there haha [16:53:49] yeah, I'll just keep it as it is [18:32:22] the 3 most common checklists changes are: swap V62 and V63, swap V60 and V61, and especially V50 N19 instead of a second 50 18 [18:34:44] not so bad, haha [18:35:20] and then a lot of small ones, most only once or twice [18:35:38] some weird display differences, even one right at the start during the self test [18:36:21] when you do V21 N27E 10E Sundance doesn't go back to showing V15 N01 [18:36:33] you have to do KEY REL [18:36:51] don't think Colossus/Luminary need that [18:37:45] the procedure does V15 N01E 1365E before the V21 N27 [18:38:15] but I guess that goes along with what we know about Sundance, a bunch of differences in handling displays [18:38:39] oh, the flown checklist confirms the KEY REL, so that's not a bug or so [18:39:29] hmm [18:39:51] or is that the same in Colossus and Luminary. I don't remember it and our checklists don't have it [18:40:12] but I just tested it with Apollo 8 [18:40:51] hmm [18:41:08] it's weird to see that in the context of Luminary, lol [18:41:11] or Sundance [18:41:17] I almost always am in Aurora when I do that, heh [18:41:26] but I think there I'm used to pressing key rel [18:41:53] oh Colossus 237 needs it, but not Luminary [18:42:04] interesting [18:42:06] and I only ever do the self test in Luminary [18:42:08] I wonder what changed there [18:44:18] Comanche 55 doesn't need it [18:44:26] but Colossus 249 still needed the KEY REL [18:45:11] probably some change within PINBALL itself [18:45:21] it's a small thing, but still interesting and weird [18:46:06] a behavior change of the monitor verbs? [18:46:24] or the load verb [18:46:53] hm [18:46:54] LOADLV CAF ZERO [18:46:55] TS DECBRNCH [18:46:55] CS ZERO [18:46:56] TS LOADSTAT [18:46:56] TC RELDSP # RELEASE FOR PRIORITY DISPLAY PROBLEM. [18:47:09] Colossus249 doesn't have that last line, while Comanche055 does [18:49:17] guess that is it [18:50:05] yep that's it [18:50:23] just tested Comanche 55 with and without that line [18:50:33] with it I don't need the key rel, without it I do [18:51:22] haha, just quickly rewriting Comanche to test that :D [18:51:36] lol, it's just deleting a line and rebuilding :P [18:51:46] same thing [18:52:03] and that code was where? [18:52:17] all the V20s I guess [18:52:41] well, 21 to 25 [18:53:20] yeah [18:53:37] all of the load verbs go through that [18:56:28] verb related questions [18:56:39] some display, like N55 in P34, only show R2 and R3 [18:56:44] displays* [18:56:49] R1 is blank [18:57:10] yep [18:57:11] apparently it works, but I was always afraid to try it, that is using V25 to load those [18:57:37] I do have to enter something in R1 or else it doesn't work [18:57:47] would that overwrite what is defined for R1 of N55? [18:57:49] oh man, you actually just solved a mystery for me [18:57:59] yes, it works [18:58:39] I mean you can easily try that with a blank erasable, Sundance, start P34, PRO to the second display [18:58:54] hmm [18:59:06] well at least it definitely works for noun 92 [18:59:08] well it's not really good that that works :D [18:59:19] as what you changed is hidden [18:59:27] shouldn't have any bad effects [18:59:36] noun 55 you would be changing NN [18:59:42] yeah [18:59:52] which doesn't get used in P34, at least not in Sundance [18:59:59] later it gets used, but then it also shows R1 [19:00:25] should be fine then [19:00:27] still, I don't really like that I am actually changing something there. So I'll keep on using V22 and V23 :P [19:01:22] and what was the mystery? [19:01:43] having address 7 in the noun table [19:01:53] means you can load whatever to that and it will remain 0 [19:02:17] oh, it's a safe address where it doesn't matter what you load [19:02:19] so V25 cannot change the first register of N92 because it's always 0 in hardware [19:02:20] yeah [19:02:57] I definitely remember that from the early days of the Sundance disassembly :D [19:03:04] haha yeah [19:03:45] but I think V25 is blocked for displays that only show R1 and R2, right? [19:03:48] Not 100% sure... [19:03:58] probably yeah [20:30:45] oh holy shit [20:30:48] indy91 [20:31:00] https://pfinspace.com/Ron/ [20:33:07] uhh [20:33:15] Paul Fjeld just sent these to Ron [20:34:26] so awesome [20:35:36] so, do I have anything wrong [20:36:46] the first thing, PHSPRDT2, that's probably only relevant on the first power up, right? [20:36:58] probably [20:37:03] that's an interesting one [20:38:33] no DKDB hehe [20:40:03] hmm, VVARMIN is only double precision? [20:40:16] oh [20:40:19] and there is DKDB [20:40:22] just out of order [20:40:25] oh good [20:44:11] looks like all of the addresses match up :D [20:49:25] well I am not 100% happy with it haha [20:49:42] if VVARMIN is double precision, I have to load its value in a different address [20:50:05] and it uses the terminology UNITW instead of -AYO and AXO [20:50:30] so do I :D [20:50:41] I picked up UNITW from a Luminary memo change [20:50:46] glad to see I have it defined right [20:50:51] VVARMIN is interesting [20:50:56] I need to check if they still had to load a 1 in UNITW+4 in Sundance [20:51:11] from the GSOP I would say no [20:51:40] there shouldn't be a downside to it, so they might just not have changed that in the padload [20:52:19] Colossus also has UNITW [20:52:25] oh cool [20:52:34] I will have to check with that to make sure my usage is correct [20:52:35] and I am fairly sure we do have to load the 1 in UNITW+4 there [20:52:40] at least in early versions [20:52:43] hmm [20:52:46] we used to have that in code actually [20:52:58] VVARMIN does look like it's double precision [20:53:09] but I moved as much padload stuff out of the code as possible [20:53:22] DLOAD DSQ [20:53:22] 36D [20:53:23] DMP RTB [20:53:24] VVARMIN [20:53:24] TPMODE [20:53:25] STORE 30D [20:53:29] that's the only place it's used [20:53:43] that DMP is going to pick it up in DP before it switches to TP [20:54:50] so that's my bad on the erasable definition -- defining it as ERASE +1 instead of ERASE +2 doesn't change the octals at all [20:55:18] I guess I just assumed it was the same as RVARMIN, which is definitely TP [20:55:36] I think UNITW is only used in Colossus for some P11 launch geometry [20:55:39] in CSM_GEOMETRY [20:55:54] but not in the planetary inertial orientation routine [20:56:02] hmm [20:56:10] yeah you're right, I did look at this [20:56:13] actually a bunch more [20:58:23] loading the full UNITW is necessary in all Colossus/Comanche/Artemis versions [21:00:24] ah, they got rid of using UNITW+4 in the planetary inertial orientation subroutine [21:00:41] but the CMC uses it in a few other places, so it's still needed [21:00:49] but does Sundance use it? [21:01:02] I mean, I will add it to the padload, as this padload document has it [21:01:05] but I'd like to know [21:01:26] hmm [21:01:28] I'll poke around [21:01:41] any use of UNITW [21:02:03] instead of just AXO and -AYO [21:02:54] ah, Ron had put up the Sundance code in html [21:03:01] so I can now google search through it [21:03:54] wait, now I am confused... [21:04:16] didn't I just see that Sundance has UNITW [21:04:26] yeah it does [21:05:06] I have the SERVICER using UNITW [21:05:17] oh [21:05:17] in CALCGRAV [21:05:21] that may or may not be correct [21:05:25] I don't have UNITW in my local version [21:05:47] ah, must be a very early build, heh [21:05:48] but that is a bit dated I guess [21:07:06] oh yeah, I think it does need UNITW+4 [21:07:33] likely some nonspherical gravity calculations didn't work right in average G [21:07:43] so maybe that caused some of the rendezvous troubles I had [21:07:59] after a burn the state vector was less accurate than it should have been [21:09:31] oh not nonspherical gravity of course [21:09:35] well, kind of [21:09:51] but the polar axis being offset from the basic reference coordinate system [21:10:14] so the padloaded AXO and -AYO, close to 0 anyway, will not really have had an effect [21:10:32] that would be such a small effect that it doesn't cause anything haha [21:11:24] heh [21:11:41] so I definitely have to load the right thing for UNITW+4 [21:11:45] yeah [21:11:57] would the VVARMIN being DP instead of TP have a noticeable affect? [21:12:00] but that issue wouldn't have cause any issue [21:12:00] *effect? [21:12:15] probably more than UNITW, definitely [21:12:48] I guess it would have had 0 [21:13:10] as what I had padloaded was in the least significant word [21:17:13] yeah, some of the range rate measurement incorporation math won't like calculating with 0 [21:17:24] cool [21:17:54] if I ever got the case where the current variance is so low that it used the minimum [21:18:19] kind of doubt I got that [21:18:47] but I guess it could potentially break the W-Matrix if the RR data is too good :D [21:20:31] hahaha [21:21:45] but most of that W-Matrix math is still voodoo to me anyway [21:21:49] so what do I know [21:23:48] so I guess I have a few fixes to do before flying Apollo 9 again [21:24:06] mostly better values from the padload document though [21:24:45] now a quick look at Apollo 10... [21:25:33] I have one change to Sundance306ish as well, but only for fresh start and I don't think you will notice it [21:26:56] it does look like Apollo 10 is for 69, not 69R2 [21:27:05] I didn't see the EJ3whatever erasables for the gravity model [21:29:36] would have been an unnecessary rebuild of 69 if they didn't end up using that :D [21:29:45] heh yeah [21:29:58] I'm sure I can find proof that they used that gravity model though [21:30:04] yeah I'm sure they did [21:30:21] this padload is from the LM data book, which I think had 99 instead of 99R1 as well [21:30:32] just slightly outdated [21:31:07] the real final loads are in those memos that I found at Don's place [21:31:12] if we can find the same group of memos at NARA [21:31:51] yeah, they definitely used the R2 model with those erasables loaded [21:32:03] mission report has a detailed section on it [21:32:23] they were fairly concerned about the propagation errors on Apollo 8 [21:32:33] yeah, makes sense [21:35:24] TARGRDG etc also looks like outdated names [21:35:42] yeah I wasn't sure about those [21:36:04] it's weird [21:36:59] a bunch of values are different [21:37:20] LOWCRIT and HIGHCRIT by quite a bit [21:37:39] have to check where our values come from, I guess mostly from the padload section of the listing [21:38:03] heh [21:38:15] which I think more closely match the Sundance built-in defaults [21:38:27] hardcoded numbers, rather [21:39:58] well I guess I have some launch scenario improvements to do tomorrow :D [21:40:05] hehehe [21:40:11] thanks Paul! [21:40:18] yeah [21:40:27] I wonder if he can help with early Colossus... [21:40:48] worth asking... but I think he got these from Grumman a long time ago [21:40:57] so I think he probably doesn't have them [21:40:58] yeah [21:41:23] good night! [14:56:42] hello [16:30:00] morning! [16:39:59] hey [16:40:50] what's up? [16:42:47] padload fixes [16:42:58] noticed a few more value changes, but nothing too interesting [16:43:21] well, Apollo 9 is the only mission where they used the CSM+LM mass for the total mass in the padload [16:43:44] because the docked DPS burn is the first thing it does [16:44:18] but one V48 overwrites that anyway [16:47:05] heh [16:47:08] interesting [16:47:44] different threshold for RR marks [16:47:56] so you would get the 06 49 more rarely [16:52:20] sounds potentially good :P [16:52:45] well, it gives a better feeling of things going well, but nothing more :D [17:04:50] hehehe [20:24:03] hey Mike, hope I'm not being weird by doing so, but I added you on LinkedIn. I'm trying to do a bit of networking out in the CA area. [20:32:01] haha cool, I'll add you :) [20:32:06] I rarely log in to linkedin lol [20:33:18] although I guess I'm easy enough to find, I've gotten a huge amount of requests after the AGC video series [01:05:01] What percentage of them from people you actually know? [01:05:18] Oh shit that's old, geez [01:05:50] AFAIK nobody maintains PanelSDK anymore, it's "ours" now and if we break it we get to keep all the pieces. [01:06:24] In the future if I don't answer something in a week email me or make more noise about it, I'm really sorry I didn't get that sooner [01:08:21] As for where it came from, I honestly don't remember, but it's been there from waaaaaay back [01:08:43] It predates me [01:09:15] but it didn't exist during the P64/"maddogs" project [01:09:37] so it happened sometime between P64 getting sick and me joining NASSP [02:09:44] Suzuran: almost none, lol [02:10:00] thewonderidiot: here is my surprised face, etc. [02:10:05] haha yeah [02:11:05]