[16:02:08] NASSP Logging has been started by n7275 [16:02:10] hey Nik [16:47:34] hey [16:55:05] every thing I improve seems to cause a new problem lol [17:03:17] morning! [17:03:18] hahaha [17:03:21] hey Mike [17:03:47] the Saturn IB S-IVB has a lot less attitude control propellant than the Saturn V S-IVB [17:04:08] so I fixed that, we had the Saturn V amount for all S-IVBs [17:04:36] but, our center of gravity for the CSM+S-IVB configuration is quite off [17:04:48] way too far back [17:04:56] so the moment arm of the APS for pitch and yaw is small [17:05:25] so I burned 30% of the APS proplellant during the manual control test during Apollo 7 [17:05:38] in reality that only took 12.5% [17:06:08] must be the moment arm, our moments of inertia for the stage is even slightly low [17:17:09] CG is more than 10 meters off for an empty S-IVB [17:18:02] I think it's even too far back for a full S-IVB, so I definitely want to change that [17:21:21] only a problem with the Saturn IB, interesting [18:41:52] well, good to see we're not in danger of running out of projects any time soon [18:45:28] hehehehe [18:49:27] I'm thinking about resuming a bit of work on electrical stuff. indy91, are you and Ryan finished with the most recent electrical projects for the moment? [18:52:37] yeah, pretty much [18:52:49] okay [19:09:15] and with this whole drag topic I am of course extremely frustrated again that I still don't have access to the LVDC listing, as that would help me understand how much they knew about the drag coefficients at that time [19:13:35] I'd much rather know that I am never going to get it. Or forget that it even exists... [19:16:17] Marry an american chick so you can become a natural US person. Then you can have access to it. [19:19:06] haha [20:57:32] night! [14:44:53] hey [14:50:19] hey Matt [14:52:56] I shifted the CG of our CSM + S-IVB configuration, Saturn IB only. I made it the same as for the Saturn V [14:53:01] no idea why it was so far back [14:53:25] it's probably a realistic CG if there was no CSM. Empty tank, engine is heavy [14:59:32] yeah, strange it was that way. [15:02:28] wasn't causing attitude control problems, just wasted APS prop with just a short moment arm for pitch and yaw [15:05:02] such* [15:20:40] our Saturn V LVDC can now also in theory take LH2 venting into account for orbital navigation [15:20:50] but all set to zero right now [16:44:24] got an interesting bug [16:44:38] one of the Apollo 7 SLA panels is transparent, from the outside only [16:44:53] I wonder if that is the same bug as the missing SM panel we sometimes get [16:45:06] which I hoped would be fixed by something Alex did but it's sadly not [16:59:23] morning! [17:00:07] hey Mike [17:00:12] what's up? [17:00:26] one of the SLA panels has an invisibility cloak from Harry Potter [17:00:36] it's visible from the inside [17:00:44] but transparent from the outside [17:01:04] hahaha [17:01:26] could be the same bug as with the SM panel that is sometimes invisible [17:01:44] well I don't have to look at it any longer, just did the Apollo 7 phasing maneuver [17:03:58] weird [17:03:59] still don't really know what drag I want to use though haha [17:30:23] yeah, that's a tough one [17:32:26] would love to hear some Apollo 7 or 9 FIDO audio [17:32:51] surely a lot of talk about drag [17:33:14] I still have some hours of Apollo 11 prelaunch audio to go through, maybe they mention what parameters they are loading for the RTCC [20:39:08] Is there a good source for Apollo 7 audio? [20:42:36] pretty much the only mission where we have almost no audio I think [20:43:00] and the audio useful for me (FIDO etc) has only been made available for 11 and 13 so far [20:44:22] what is available for most mission is the air to ground and PAO audio [20:44:27] missions* [20:44:43] but not the complete missions for all I think [20:45:14] but for air to ground we also have the transcripts [20:53:11] nice empty page from NASA: https://archive.org/details/Apollo7 [21:00:14] night [12:33:43] good morning! [12:44:32] morning [13:20:33] I think I'm going to finish flying Apollo 7, to get me back in the spirit of things. I'm at 102h GET, what do I need to edit to be comparable with the current commit? [13:27:08] how old is the scn [13:28:41] mid May, iirc [13:30:26] so just some ECS stuff [13:31:41] You can use the Apollo 7 Before SPS 4 as a template [13:32:17] if you want you can send me the scn (discord is fine) and I can quickly copy the lines in [13:33:22] sure. thanks. will probably be later today, as I'm not home right now. [13:39:18] hey [13:40:54] n7275 sure ping me whenever you wish it will take just a minute to fix up [13:41:03] morning Niklas [13:45:26] actually flying Apollo 7 helps me understand the drag situation more [13:45:50] the S-IVB ran out of APS propellant at 10h GET during the real mission [13:46:06] so until then it was in controlled flight in the least draggy attitude [13:46:11] while the CSM was maneuvering around [13:47:25] engine bell forward? [13:47:48] ye [13:47:48] p [13:48:37] and they did a LVDC state vector update [13:49:04] so the S-IVB should know what the right LVLH attitude is until it goes into uncontrolled flight [13:49:55] the LOX dump wasn't taken into account for orbital navigation so just before the state vector update the position error was up to 200km haha [13:51:29] oh wow [13:52:04] its been a while, but the crew updated the CSM SV with a "good" SIVB SV via marks correct? [13:52:22] hmm [13:54:32] makes me wonder about that uncontrolled flight WRT SV updates [13:55:22] "The S-IVB state vector is updated rather than the CSM because the atmospheric drag of the S-IVB is greater than that of the CSM, and the CMC does not compensate for the atmospheric drag on either vehicle. By updating the S-IVB's state vector, the CMC's knowledge of the state vector is closer to the actual." [13:55:41] that's what the mission techniques for the rendezvous say [13:55:53] so marks updating the S-IVB SV rather than the CSM [13:56:13] but I'm not quite sure right now if that is how it was done [13:57:33] yeah, no V80 or V81 was done after NSR [13:57:41] so by default P20 will update the other vehicle [13:58:14] and the rendezvous techniques mention drag a bunch of times for the time tags of uplinked state vectors. [13:58:22] I'll implement those according to the document [13:59:32] I was watching the linked vide on the forums and the checklist MFD said update CSM SV I think [14:00:26] at what point though? [14:00:59] I think you start updating the CSM state vector after TPI [14:03:01] but between NSR and TPI it should be S-IVB [14:20:24] I thought I saw it towards the end of his video [15:00:10] could be for P35 then [15:01:37] hmm weird, I can't actually reproduce the drag force that Orbiter calculates for the S-IVB [15:01:46] too small [15:05:22] orbiters is? [15:06:45] yeah [15:07:18] maybe it's not actually using the area defined in SetCrossSections for the legacy drag model [15:09:10] if I reverse calculate the area I get 19 m^2 [15:09:17] but at a minimum it should use 34 [15:10:20] but maybe something else is wrong in my calculation [15:23:11] ok I made that 34 m^2 twice as large and the drag did also increase by that much [15:23:17] so cross section is used [15:26:05] numbers working out now? [15:26:11] did Martin forget the "1/2", in 1/2 * rho * V^2, somewhere?