[16:06:54] NASSP Logging has been started by indy91 [16:06:56] cya in a few weeks :D [16:07:44] Haha oh it will take a while for sure [16:07:53] But I think worth it in the long run [16:08:05] I kind of enjoy it... [16:08:38] I was getting tired of fixing things by working around the current CSM ECS code [16:08:47] sounds very familiar [16:08:57] at the very least I learned a lot when I tried to completely replace something [16:09:04] I am going to plumb the ECS properly and then go into the code and fix there [16:09:24] I mean I am only between the O2 tanks and the main regulators and already there is a LOT wrong [16:09:34] hopefully things will be a bit easier with the new substance code [16:09:47] At least as far as behavior, yeah [16:34:14] morning! [16:34:30] hey Mike [17:28:30] Yeah this will take a while to get right, looks like I will be locked in my CMECS branch a while ;) [17:30:38] Lots to undo and correct to be, well, correct [18:33:30] rcflyinghokie if you're pushing to that branch I'd love to do some testing if you need any help. [18:37:28] Oh absolutely [18:37:55] I have a lot more plumbing to do then I have to go edit the code accordingly to account for the changes before it will be testable [18:38:08] But man it was hacky [18:43:33] So far I am only between the O2 tanks and the o2 supply manifold [18:43:53] Old code had the O2 tanks connected directly to things like cabin repress and surge tank etc [18:45:06] So I am replumbing and connecting systems using the same approach I did in the LM [19:00:13] and by now you know a lot more about the coding side as well [19:00:33] probably won't need me for that :D [19:02:46] Haha I do know a lot more! [19:02:59] And many of the systems exist in some state so I can modify [19:03:16] right [19:03:23] we had to do that from scratch in the LM, too [19:05:33] yep! [19:05:38] But now its a good template [19:05:52] Interesting, the water separators in the CM are pistons [19:06:17] down stroked by oxygen pressure and up by return spring [19:31:04] so it gets o2 manifold pressure to run the pistons on one side, and separates oxygen in the suit circuit on the other side [19:32:38] so it uses manifold pressure to run, unlike the LM which needed the suit fans to generate a dP [19:34:26] separates water in the suit circuit* [19:56:10] interesting system [20:05:20] can probably remove the combo atmregen class and add a new water accumulator similar to the LM's [20:05:34] but I am going to focus on plumbing before diving into all the code [20:05:48] Working the demand regs now trying to solve the plumbing [20:08:52] they are much more complicated than implemented [21:35:21] ok my head is spinning a bit now haha, but I have all the O2 components in, now I will resume plumbing them tomorrow [21:38:37] oh I can imagine [21:39:21] night! [21:45:15] n7275 while nothing is ready to test you can see the changes in my CSMECS branch [21:45:17] https://github.com/rcflyinghokie/NASSP/tree/CSMECS [21:46:02] One thing I want to test though once I have it at least in a functioning state is phase changing the O2 without the cheaty boil functions [22:13:10] well that is the thing that my update should have fixed. [22:22:48] hopefully [23:28:16] It should phase change properly when heated now? So I should be able to pipe cryo O2 to a heat exchanger and get gas state? [23:28:30] Also is there any good way to return the phase, that might be useful [00:48:19] yes that should work properly now and consume the right amount of energy [00:49:23] vapor mass/(mass - vapor mass) will give you vapor fraction [02:57:29] we could definitely just add a short little inline function that does that though. [10:09:33] hey TurryBoeing how go the preparations for your Apollo 7 mission? [10:10:14] Hey good morning [10:10:20] Looking good [10:10:35] Testing if I have enough space for the recording [10:12:02] In around an hour I will say wich orbiter beta I am running, and wich D3D9 version I am running [10:13:23] https://www.orbithangar.com/showAddon.php?id=ebe2f606-e602-4af4-970b-3b25848fdd95 [10:13:30] And I will use that addod [10:13:34] *addon [10:13:45] I think it is compatible with everything [10:15:09] yeah, seems like it just triggers saving just like Orbiter does it [10:15:34] what do you mean which Orbiter Beta? [10:16:05] I think in general all the later Orbiter Beta releases are fine for NASSP. Early Orbiter Betas and Orbiter 2016 not so great [10:16:15] and I wouldn't use the open source Orbiter yet either [10:20:23] I mean Orbiter 20216 beta R90 [10:20:31] *2016 beta R90 [10:21:07] yeah, that's the last one [10:21:24] best one to use I think [10:21:28] Yeah [10:21:40] For the D3D9 client i´ll have to confirm later [10:21:41] probably also what the NASSP auto releases are build with [10:22:10] I'm sure any DX9 client version for beta R90 will be fine [11:01:09] Uploaded file: https://uploads.kiwiirc.com/files/11c05a9871c6224667e92588e4171552/imagen.png [11:01:21] checking if spacecraft is ready! [11:01:33] *Dream mode on* [11:01:43] It would be nice to have the white room [11:02:04] Uploaded file: https://uploads.kiwiirc.com/files/42728556e505238b7eba3e126219e81e/imagen.png [11:02:30] And if there was the Apollo 8 Saturn V standing by... Maybe it could be added? [11:02:36] *Dream mode off* [11:04:48] I have D3D9 client 30.1 [11:05:21] On the D3D9 client site it says it´s the stable one for the beta R90 wich is the one that I have [11:07:21] seems like a good version [11:07:26] I'm a bit out of date, I still have 29.3 [11:07:29] Yeah [11:07:49] should update, occasionally I have some graphics glitches [11:08:11] ah and it seems like Apollo 8 was rolled out to LC-39A just 2 days before Apollo 7 launched [11:08:38] The MSS arrived one day after Apollo 7 launched, so there must be some shots of both rockets [11:09:43] I wouldn't add a whole additional Saturn with CSM and all running, that is probably quite CPU heavy. But we might have a simple mesh of the full Saturn V [11:09:44] https://www.nasa.gov/feature/50-years-ago-nasa-launched-apollo-7 [11:09:49] which you could place at LC-39A [11:09:54] I'll check if we have that [11:09:56] Yeah [11:10:03] Just a simple mess would be nice [11:10:07] *mesh [11:10:19] I am becoming the Typo master :D [11:18:35] hmm, seems like I was wrong [11:18:39] we don't have that [11:22:52] it probably wouldn't be difficult to build a simple mesh from the individual mesh files, but I have never tried working with the meshes [11:29:19] it would be good to have static meshes for vehicles in the background [11:29:45] Yeah [11:29:57] But my dream mode was on [11:30:08] But if you could it would be really nice [11:30:36] I don't think I can, but there are others who have lots of experience with meshes who could easily do it [11:31:20] when AS-203 launched in July 1966 there were 3 Saturn vehicles on launchpads [11:31:28] AS-202 was being prepared [11:31:45] and they tested LC-39A with: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SA-500F [11:34:22] Cool [11:38:35] Will come back later! [12:51:18] would be fun to have SA-500. [12:53:07] maybe we could use it for testing when we add GSE support. [13:14:12] hey Matt [13:15:48] part of me always thought, NASSP should really start with the S-IB-1 stage on the test stand [13:16:14] and then implement it from there that you transport and stack and launch and everything [13:19:33] we also have Little Joe meshes [13:43:04] oh yes! [13:48:33] static tests would be fun [13:48:33] the RTCC uses two arctangent functions [13:48:44] QATAN and DATAN2 [13:49:20] are those RTCC specific functions or from FORTRAN? [13:52:03] hmm, there is also DATAN [13:52:29] and what is GLQATN... [13:52:51] looking now [13:53:19] I've always been confused by these various functions haha [13:53:45] GLQATN at least seems to be something RTCC specific [13:53:49] can't find it on google [13:56:27] DATAN2 is a fortran routine [13:57:03] http://74.78.59.28/Files/IBSYSv13_Source/7090-pr130-3.txt [13:57:18] entry point is at L7T00080 [13:58:50] actually I may be wrong about that being the entry point. [13:59:23] is the return value like the modern atan2, -pi to pi? [13:59:49] current best theory about GLQATN, it might just be atan2 which return value 0 to 2*pi [14:02:24] oh hahaha [14:02:26] GL [14:02:26] L [14:02:29] L means library [14:02:38] we have the writeup of GLQATN... [14:02:49] "Zero to Two Pi Arctangent Subroutine" [14:03:02] it doesn't call DATAN2 [14:03:11] its a separate atan2 implementation [14:05:07] so it uses at least three functions [14:05:23] two atan2 versions [14:06:47] I guess I'll implement GLQATN then, and just make it call atan2, but return 0 to 2*pi [14:08:47] PDF page 51 has some good info http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/ibm/7090/C28-6389-1_v13_IBJOB_Jun65.pdf [14:11:40] This is also a good resource http://bitsavers.org/pdf/ibm/360/fortran/GC28-6818-1_OS360_FORTRAN_IV_Library_-_Mathematical_and_Service_Subprograms_197209.pdf [14:14:15] I guess ATAN DATAN QATAN are just different levels of precision [14:14:31] so the RTCC uses all the standard Fortran functions [14:14:42] plus one additional implementation for atan2 [14:15:04] there is actually a case where it uses DATAN2 and GLQATN in the same function [14:15:22] depending on the desired return value [14:15:30] 0 to 2*pi or -pi to pi [14:15:58] I think it's now all clearer to me, thanks for the sources! [14:16:15] sure thing [14:17:43] I do kind of wonder why they made their own implementation though [14:17:58] GLQATN might as well have called DATAN2 and then checked on the sign of the solution [14:25:47] yeah, that's very strange [14:27:08] maybe some very old code, before a good atan2 function was available in Fortran? [14:33:33] hmm [14:55:39] does the "Q" in GLQATN mean Quad-precision? [15:12:23] there was an "ATANF" in the origional 704 fortran [16:59:26] n7275, the Q in GLQATN probably has the same meaning as in QATAN [19:27:58] i'M SLOWLY WORKING MY WAY THROUGH alefem NOW... [19:28:06] whoops [19:32:36] I worked on the RTCC equivalent PLEFEM a few days ago so that it also interpolates and provides the libration matrix. Previously it was just used for the sun/moon ephemeris [19:32:59] still a bit skeptical about interpolating a whole rotation matrix [19:33:20] but if I rotate a large position vector I only get an error of 1 meter at worst [19:38:06] Does PLEFEM have JPLE**** for sequence numbers, like JPLEPH and ALEFEM do? [19:39:54] I'll tell you when I get the code for PLEFEM [19:40:19] CENTER-RTCC-14-001-002 PDF page 285 [19:40:26] that's what we have of it :D [19:41:24] oooooooooooooooooooooh, haha [19:41:53] that document with ALEFEM is the closest to RTCC code we have [19:41:56] and it's not RTCC code [19:42:08] there will be one big difference between ALEFEM and PLEFEM [19:42:12] ... I think [19:42:18] ALEFEM actually reads from tape directly, right? [19:42:31] yes [19:42:39] with the RTCC it loads large data tables from a tape, pre mission [19:42:42] Hello guys [19:42:45] and PLEFEM then only interpolates [19:42:50] welcome back [19:43:10] we have the program flow for the function who reads from the tape and builds the data tables, too [19:43:14] which* [19:43:32] Quick question: Do you know to GET when the crew stowed their couches? [19:43:46] as they are stowable on the VC [19:43:56] I would like to know when I can do that [19:44:21] not from the top of my head. You will probably find something in the transcript or mission report [19:44:33] Will look there [19:48:52] I wonder if the 360 Fortran compiler allows the "Read()" funtion to initalize from symbolic memory locations [19:50:27] Foundwhen they stowed the coaches [19:50:41] Well, not all at the same time, but around 29 minutes GET [19:50:55] *couches [19:58:38] Going to sleep goys! [19:58:45] See you tomorrow [20:10:45] what for? [20:11:42] oh and there is actually a MED to read from tape and change the ephemeris data during the mission [20:18:01] oh cool [20:19:13] "QMEPHEM determines whether it was entered by MED or by on EXEC DD [20:19:15] statement and processes the input data accordingly." [20:19:21] what's an EXEC DD statement? [20:23:46] I think it's an OS/360 command [20:25:48] https://www.ibm.com/docs/en/zos/2.1.0?topic=reference-exec-statement [20:33:31] yeah I guess you can control a IBM 360 even without a MED :D [21:27:46] night! [05:41:52] GOOD DAY [05:42:06] Whoops. Didn´t meant to shout [05:42:09] :) [08:48:25] hello. best of luck on the mission [08:48:50] Thanks :) [13:26:49] Uploaded file: https://uploads.kiwiirc.com/files/e53ca51d4dfd65baec81c1d5eb4bb630/imagen.png [17:06:38] morning! [17:12:22] hey Mike [17:15:51] hi [17:24:12] hello [17:24:26] what's up? [17:25:56] Apollo 7 real time stream is happening now [17:25:57] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YbrvVCx7h2A [17:59:40] awesome :D [18:46:25] looks like the first day went okay [18:48:36] Yeah. Anyone know what timezone he's in? [18:54:17] UTC+1 iirc [19:18:34] Alternatively for a CMC control mode you can use 4.8.2.2 RCS DAP Attitude Deadband Change Procedure on page 4-289. That will give you up to 30° of deadband. [21:48:59] night! [22:41:01] Thymohello [22:41:17] Thymo Hello. Spain is on CET [22:41:26] So right now UTC+1 yeah [22:58:40] Gotcha. How was sleep? [22:59:27] Well, I slept [22:59:30] xD [22:59:42] That's good. I imagine you feel kind of jet lagged [23:02:13] Not too much [23:02:22] I was adapting this days before [23:17:11] Uploaded file: https://uploads.kiwiirc.com/files/b1ef5e8095c9b06e7b2bf77dc0bf36af/imagen.png [23:17:18] 13:13:13 [23:37:01] Uploaded file: https://uploads.kiwiirc.com/files/7c3ee11c285030b553e53549a8aae5f4/imagen.png [14:05:30] hey Ryan [14:07:45] hey [14:09:49] hey Niklas [14:10:04] good morning [14:17:10] going to try getting back into "plumbing" today haha [14:19:39] I've been reworking the general purpose maneuver processor a bit. It's one of the most problematic when it comes to changing coordinate systems [14:19:43] on the* [14:19:53] perform maneuver at equatorial crossing etc. [14:47:36] The texture for the altitude knob on the ORDEAL in the VC is mirrored. "Push to turn" is displayed "nrut ot hsup" lol [14:59:32] how did I not notice that haha [15:00:43] shows how little I am in the VC [15:08:41] when alex released it I forced myself to start using it. the first spa burn I did was a bit of a game of "find the switch". but after that it's become fairly intuitive [15:18:26] indy91, going through that lengthy post from thermocalc, Q1, does the RTCC uplink a REFSMMAT during the MCC5 target load? [15:18:50] The flightplan lists REFSMMAT in that uplink block but I dont see one actually being uplinked there [15:20:32] it does [15:20:36] haven't read that yet [15:20:49] it's even the actual REFSMMAT [15:20:52] not desired REFSMMAT [15:23:02] Yeah at that point it should already have an entry REFSMMAT [15:23:24] I see REFSMMAT in the flight plan, but the transcript doesnt mention uplinking an actual at that point [15:29:55] I think they did [15:30:05] they already had an entry REFSMMAT previously [15:30:11] and it was just a small correction [15:30:29] so instead of a P52 option 1 they just needed a P52 option 3, with slightly larger torquing angles [15:30:39] Usually they mention that when they ask for the computer though [15:31:04] I can't immediately remember, but I am sure I implemented it this way for a reason [15:31:46] 102:48:23 Collins: Roger. And could you go to Accept. please, and we're going to send you a P27 load consisting of a LM state vector and a target load for MCC-5. [15:31:46] I'll try to find where I got that from [15:32:04] The flight plan does say REFSMMAT there, but I cant see it actually being done is all [15:32:05] oh you mean if they even got a REFSMMAT on MCC-5 [15:32:08] yes [15:32:16] I followed the flight plan [15:32:19] Ah ok [15:32:22] good enough for me [15:32:52] I'll try to tackle some of these questions [15:33:06] ok, thanks! [15:57:16] would you mind answering 3 and 4? I think they are more up your alley with trajectory and differences between the MCC targeting and the CMC [15:58:36] will do [16:00:36] I removed the "COAS" from the apollo 8 entry procedure as it was a relic and it should be the horizon track line [16:05:55] Uploaded file: https://uploads.kiwiirc.com/files/2503c8df920d0a3f5fde1be2aaba13d2/imagen.png [16:13:11] nice [17:28:39] morning! [17:29:54] hey Mike [17:29:59] what's up? [17:30:26] Uploaded file: https://uploads.kiwiirc.com/files/9da0a7e3689b65c7798e463323a99ba0/photo_2021-11-08_18-29-33.jpg [17:30:36] dEDICATED TO YOU [17:30:44] From the crew of Apollo 7 [17:34:00] :D [20:25:14] Just read up a procedure to Turry that I think hasn't been used in NASSP before. "RCS DAP Attitude Deadband Change". It's the same kind that's used for CMC orbital rate but it changes an erasable to put the DAP on a 30° deadband (V48 only lets you set 5°). Hope this gives him some peace of mind knowing that the CMC holds attitude outside gimbal lock but saving RCS by being on wide deadband. [21:02:03] I have that on a sticky-note on my desk [21:02:20] When do you use it? [21:03:39] csm attitude hold while I'm off playing in the lem [21:05:21] That's a good reason [21:05:58] I hadn't even though about that scenario. Really shows I don't get enough hours in the LEm [21:09:06] same erasable for Ptc too right? [21:10:13] You could apply this to deadband. All it does is change the deadband [21:10:53] Good night guys [21:10:57] Thanks for all [21:11:05] good night [21:11:26] catch you on the next activity cycle [21:15:15] He's getting 4 hours of shut eye now. I'll be asleep when he wakes up again. [21:15:23] Thymo, also useful for resetting your ptc deadband after uplinks. [21:15:53] Why would an uplink touch your deadband? [21:15:58] Thymo I have used those changes a bunch [21:16:42] In fact I think it was actually used in some missions as well, but I have used it a few times I am trying to remember which missions [21:18:58] 13 I think is where I first did in the LM [21:19:08] I'm in the habit of going to P00 before and after uplinks. I believe this resets the deadband. [21:20:59] I dont think P00 does [21:21:18] it will stop a DAP rate command [21:21:39] Poo or enema don't touch anything inside the DAP [21:22:11] selecting any new program will exit the a dap rate command [21:22:36] but it wont change a deadband [21:23:11] V37E will stop the rate [21:31:21] maybe that's what I'm thinking of [21:31:48] yeah calling P00 requires the V37E so very likely [21:32:14] But changing the deadband back would be done via (let me RTFM) [21:32:47] THC CW then neutral or V48 [21:36:52] ah ha [21:37:10] I tend to forget these things [21:37:18] hence the notes [21:39:07] Mind you that resetting via V48 does not recenter your deadband. So if you change it from 30 back to 5 and you are outside 5 degrees the CMC will immediately start thrusting back [21:45:12] that is correct, the THC will though [21:55:32] well I think I have all the new tanks needed for the CSM ECS, now I need to add all the pipes [21:56:57] nice. how many new tanks did you have to add? [22:04:31] hmm not sure as many were removed as well because they were not accurate [22:05:41] I also added proper manifolds for many areas like the water accumulators, the co2 scrubbers, and suits for the crew [22:05:57] I have I think 20 total now [22:07:19] the goal of course will be to have more accurate behavior and better transducer locations/readings [22:07:41] not to mention being able to have the crew in suits or cabin instead of always in the suit circuit [22:07:57] and to be able to see if the O2 behaves [22:09:02] nice thing is some of the components we made for the LM will be able to be used here as well like the co2 scrubbers and (with a little modification) the water separators [22:09:35] and of course that will open the door to being able to say change a CO2 cartridge [22:12:35] awesome [22:13:18] I do project a few months before this would be stable enough to release [22:13:30] And it would break old scns [22:44:27] maybe I'll try some of my yet-unmerged fuel cell features so when we do the great re-fly we can do it in one go. [23:28:24] yeah I think that would be a good time to marry them [23:46:05] step 1: stable pressures in the reactant chambers [23:46:25] step 2: make voltage a function of pressure [23:51:34] step 3: have this not happen: https://youtu.be/oNrYOvp_W_Q [01:39:58] Hello hello [02:02:32] hello [02:04:22] Hey [02:04:31] I though there was a P52 at 39:30 [02:04:48] But it´s not on the checklistMFD flghtplan [02:05:00] So right now we are killing time... [02:27:31] that's odd. it's in the prelim and final. option 2 [02:29:36] looks like you have some P20, SIVb tracking coming up next. that should be fun [02:31:07] or maybe you've already done it. I've been drifting in and out of youtube [03:58:35] Just restarted orbiter, as an option for troubleshooting the stuttering [03:58:53] Semms like it was some windows sound thing [03:59:02] Or something related with OrbiterSound [03:59:27] Made a change in windows, stuttering stopped but Orbiter lost sound [03:59:35] After restarting, it looks good now [04:00:18] (after restaring Orbiter, not Windows) [13:38:43] good morning [13:42:25] Hey [13:47:51] how's it going? [13:50:19] I'm at work right now. cant join video :( [13:53:37] Temperature normalized [13:54:11] On the last moments you watched of the night my intention was to get to an attitude where I could be facing the sun [13:54:22] So the engine could cool down [13:54:47] Got to the attitude and then kept it with V49 [13:57:37] nice [13:58:54] I looked through AOH for info on overheating. I didn't find anything. it is possible that in reality the line heaters wouldn't heat quite so aggressively. [13:59:19] others may know better than I do, though [13:59:32] They also got Houston [13:59:38] to alert the crew [14:02:29] yeah. there are telemetry measurements for things like that. Houston could see it, and even trigger master alarm to wake the crew up if they needed to [14:03:36] we have the telemetry to support that (over TCP) but our MCC doesnt do anything with telemetry other than uplinks....yet. [14:05:09] it's on my list of projects [14:06:43] Nice [14:06:51] We have to talk about that [14:07:37] If you know I had a little project using telemetry consoles and orbconnect [14:07:49] Now it´s stopped [14:08:00] It was a younght project :D [14:08:11] And we grew up, less time, life, etc [14:08:21] No it´s inactive [14:08:31] http://orbisondas.es [14:18:11] Now it´s inactive * [14:18:26] Uploaded file: https://uploads.kiwiirc.com/files/ef9443d80a18aaa0534dcb47c64b0d73/imagen.png [14:18:36] Thanks for your service, S-IVB [14:18:45] You have been an awesome booster [15:30:45] hey Ryan [15:32:28] morning [15:48:25] question for you. I looked around for info on this but couldn't find anything. what would happen if you left the sps line heaters on indefinitely? do those have enough power to cause damage? [15:58:30] ^I did that mistake [16:05:24] I would imagine they have some sort of thermostatic switch but I don't know offhand [16:05:37] I'll see what I can find [16:06:29] I think the servos have over temp protection [16:07:05] hey [16:07:50] morning [16:08:10] what's up? [16:10:24] working on thermocalcs new post haha [16:33:18] I've gone a bit too far with the GPM update [16:33:25] but I think I'll get somewhere [16:34:05] Nah, too far is probably good :P [16:35:14] I'm using the analytic ephemeris generator for it now. [16:35:33] which is an analytic method for state vector propagation as compared to integration [16:35:48] I know it has some accuracy issues, but I'm starting to trust it [16:36:13] it has some advantages because it's working with orbital elements and not vectors [16:36:23] So I can use the exact equations from the IBM RTCC documents [16:36:32] that is a big advantage I imagine [16:38:05] The RTACF had a few more options than the RTCC version [16:38:09]