[23:05:10] NASSP Logging has been started by thymo [23:05:12] ,startlogging [16:04:27] Hey guys [16:05:09] Seen a thread on the forum about mode 1 abort on Apollo 7 [16:05:23] Could be some checklist mistake? [16:05:51] But if he tried on the T-60 seconds scenario, that is improbable... [16:05:53] hey [16:06:44] checklist mistake would usually lead to an aborted launch. Aborted as in, it doesn't try to launch [16:06:55] as the EDS is unsafe and that is getting checked [16:07:29] A PAD abort? like shuttle RSLS abort? (the rocket doesn´fly) [16:07:38] *doesn´t [16:08:09] Maybe he is using joystick... and unadvertedly moving it thus causing the abort? [16:09:33] that shouldn't do anything [16:09:42] throttle doesn't work anymore on the Saturn either [16:12:17] He says that he rides the rollercoaster when he puts EDS to auto... [16:12:21] Wait a sec [16:12:35] I´ve seen something that may point to checklist mistake [16:12:40] Not a checklist mistake, I tested them a few times could not replicate [16:13:35] Unless its user error but again I could not replicate any auto abort [16:19:00] hey guys [16:19:43] At T-2h 40 minutes, EDS PWR & EDS AUTO - ON (For EDS checkout and countdown test) [16:19:44] At T-1h 21 minutes, EDS PWR & EDS AUTO - OFF (EDS Test complete) [16:19:46] At T- 1h 13 minutes, SECS OFF and Pyro SAFE to avoid inadvertent abort [16:19:47] At T-44 mins, Pad Abort is enabled: Operation of THC CCW will cause and abort... [16:19:49] EDS PWR - ON, SECS ON, Pyro ARM [16:19:50] At -15 mins EDS Auto - ON, 2 eng out and LV rates AUTO [16:19:53] T -4 minutes V75 (DO NOT ENTR) [16:19:56] (So yep, checklist is OK, if he didn´t skip anything....) [16:20:20] hey n7275 [16:21:02] So yeah, maybe extremely low frames and things jumping around.... [16:24:26] He is starting from the T-60 scn it seems so again checklist isntr an issue [16:24:52] Yeah correct [16:24:54] I wonder if it could happen if you install NASSP wrong that the rocket doesn't stand upright at liftoff [16:24:57] I am hoping to get a reply on frames [16:25:08] I have seen botched installs do that sort of thing [16:26:41] do we know he's using the latest version and not, say, 7.0... [16:27:10] Nassp 7 on Orbiter 2016 may cause it [16:27:13] I do not know I will ask in my last post [16:27:19] *may cause things [16:29:07] AFK [16:43:10] indy91 drawing a blank here, what in the RTCC was used to compute the pre TEI plane change? [16:43:30] might depend on the mission [16:43:42] on Apollo 12 I changed the landing site to Descartes [16:43:55] and used the descent planning plane change, like you would do before ascent [16:44:34] What about 13/14 [16:45:37] basically the same for 13 [16:46:15] "The plane change, which is an SPS [16:46:21] burn of 824.6 fps, results in an orbit that passes directly over Descartes [16:46:26] and Davy Rille two revolutions later." [16:47:24] Ahh ok [16:47:39] So you just need to change the RLS to those [16:47:57] And the time [16:48:15] nah the time doesn't matter [16:48:29] would only matter for an updated LS REFSMMAT [16:48:33] TH2 time doesnt matter? [16:48:39] that time matters [16:48:46] Thats the time I am referring to [16:48:50] ah ok [16:48:58] I thought the landing time [16:49:02] "landing" [16:49:13] Apollo 14 didn't do a second LOPC [16:49:16] Nah RLS doesnt have a time entry anyways [16:49:27] 13 had a planned one [16:49:33] yes [16:49:42] the RTCC keeps a landing time around for PDI PAD etc [16:49:46] and LS REFSMMAT [16:50:13] so for 13 you change the landing site coordinates to Descartes [16:50:21] and TH2 needs to be 2 orbits later [16:50:24] right [17:11:46] indy91 major frame drop seems to be the culprit [17:12:40] isn't the scale showing it's dipping down from 60 to 40? [17:12:45] that shouldn't be so bad [17:12:52] I am just seeing that now actually [17:13:02] I had it open on my phone [17:13:33] Could that spike be enough to cause a rate issue [17:13:43] Also any idea if this happens on other launch scns? [17:14:04] I'll reply [17:18:38] I cant replicate it at all [18:05:37] Question guys: [18:06:09] "Maneuver spacecraft to sighting attitude" means maneuver to an attitude so that the optics point to Earth or Moon, right? [18:11:07] It was usually read up to V49 to an attitude that would be optimal for the P23 [18:24:13] I Understand [18:24:24] I can use the last attitude used for P23 [18:24:43] Take note of the last attitude, and then use it [18:32:00] Also you can check the transcript [18:35:27] indy91 what might cause a CTD changing the REFSMMAT in the RTCC REFSMMAT page [18:35:42] https://www.dropbox.com/s/23mrciqjikoe678/Screenshot%202022-03-22%20123533.jpg?dl=0 [18:35:47] https://www.dropbox.com/s/eo94bgkwv55c5n9/Apollo_14_-_REFSMMAT_crash.scn?dl=0 [18:36:12] old stuff on the MPT? [18:36:58] RTCC_TLAND -nan(ind) [18:37:10] I think GET_Display tries to show this number [18:37:20] for the LS REFSMMAT [18:37:29] and maybe that causes the crash? [18:37:50] morning! [18:38:00] so there must have been some failed LDPP calculation that broke the TLAND [18:38:04] hey Mike [18:40:25] Hmm interesting [18:40:28] maybe that's something that can be fixed in the GET_Display function [18:40:46] but the LDPP should probably be safer, not saving the TLAND if something goes wrong [18:41:58] Hmm so what would have messed up that TLAND [18:42:15] And how would we fix it [18:43:33] hmm the LDPP already checks if it is an error return [18:43:40] and if it is the TLAND isn't getting updated [18:43:43] so that is strange [18:44:07] Hey thewonderidiot [18:44:19] rcflyinghokieTranscript, yep [18:44:23] Yeah I am unsure how he got a nan for TLAND [18:44:32] Didnt come to my mind... [18:44:43] Haha its usually quite useful [18:46:30] I guess there needs to be a protection against it, but also I am curious how it happened to begin with [18:46:38] And of course how to fix it haha [18:47:08] I'm kind of surprised that sprintf_s would crash [18:47:25] I thought the point of specifying a maximum number of characters is to prevent that... [18:48:16] but yeah I think aside from manual input the LDPP is the only thing that changes the TLAND [18:48:20] so it must be that [18:49:55] if the landing site update page doesn't crash, it has a revert button [18:50:00] to get back the original TLAND [18:50:22] Hey Houston, Going to the moon! [18:50:23] https://prnt.sc/vxznLVDt4Bol [18:50:29] Look at the GET [18:50:38] The infamous hour 27 :D [18:51:21] ah oops [18:51:30] that only resets the landing site coordinates [18:51:31] not TLAND [18:51:39] yeah [18:52:02] a good LDPP calculation will also fix it I guess :DF [18:52:02] With the LM on the moon, would the only other way to fix it be in a scn edit? [18:52:04] :D [18:52:19] hmm [18:52:26] yeah plane change calculation doesn't update the TLAND [18:53:30] but yeah it's confirmed that the TLAND is causing it, I replicated it [18:54:11] I just dont know what would botch a decent planning to cause a bad tland [18:54:51] Ahh [18:54:53] "Just managed to recreate it, I used the wrong thing and used the LM Powered Descent in the LDPP, which then causes the error" [18:55:13] So any way to fix this TLAND here without an edit? [18:56:50] "used the LM Powered Descent" that shouldn't work, need to check that [18:59:46] ok, in the CSM [18:59:56] option LM Maneuver Sequence, DOI [19:00:11] that gives you "some" TLAND, which is of course not correct, but at least not NaN [19:00:53] so, make the LDPP fix what it broke :D [19:02:35] This was before PDI in the LM [19:04:27] yeah, I get lots of NaN if I try the LM powered descent option [19:04:59] probably does in any cases, wherever it gets used [19:06:46] I need to implement some error return [19:07:16] so that it can't screw up the TLAND if you accidentally use that mode that isn't available yet [19:08:47] but to fix it just let it calculate a DOI while being in the CSM [19:09:03] that calculate a non-NaN TLAND and at least fixes the CTD for now [19:11:09] I need to check which part of trying to display the NaN causes a CTD [19:26:35] Going to try to place some protection in there? [19:28:20] yeah [19:28:33] for now just that oyu can't run the Powered Descent option in the LDPP at all [19:28:52] kind of undefined behavior because it doesn't cause an error return [19:29:00] it just has code missing [19:29:05] and doesn't update the TLAND [19:29:20] not internally, which means the TLAND that gets saved is random [19:33:57] aha [19:34:05] rcflyinghokie, I can reproduce the abort [19:34:16] if I delete the modified elevation file [19:35:16] then the touchdown points update at launch, because normally the Saturn IB should be at a slant there [19:35:30] and it tries to recover but has large attitude rates for a moment [19:35:35] which is enough to cause the abort [19:39:00] which modified elevation file [19:39:59] Alex modified the elevation data at our launchpads so that they are completely flat [19:40:13] Textures\Earth\Elev_mod [19:40:19] there is a file there that comes with NASSP [19:40:35] so why did he get the issue and other fresh installs dont [19:41:15] when we started using Orbiter 2016 then especially at LC-34 the rocket wasn't pointing straight up, so we needed to modify the file [19:41:35] no idea, some installation error [19:42:14] I would expect this file to have the same sort of issue as anything else in the Texture folder with the changed TextureDir in the Orbiter config [19:42:24] maybe it's that [19:42:47] ah so it was likely a botched install [19:42:58] yeah... although I am confused [19:43:26] it isn't mentioned in the installation guide that you need to copy that file over if you use a different install [19:43:34] for the textures [19:44:06] so I don't know if this is a common issue that nobody really noticed so far [19:44:13] or actually an installation error [19:44:33] Maybe similar to the FDAI issue I had the other day? [19:44:43] (pointing to installation error) [19:45:19] For some reason Windows did something weird with the FDAI texture the other day that I had you puzzled [19:45:48] well we jokingly blamed Windows, but I don't think it was actually Windows :P [19:46:52] But I don´t do mistakes [19:47:04] I just abort [19:47:07] xD [19:47:33] especially when using NASSP 7.0.0 [19:47:45] no need to abort in NASSP 7.0.1 :D [19:48:19] AKA NASSP "No abort" edition [19:48:46] indy91 I asked Alex to add that and he said it was clear enough lol [19:49:32] Hey, one second. Are we saying the Earth must be flat? [19:49:47] only at LC-34 yes [19:49:54] otherwise it can be non-flat [19:50:10] Good [19:50:25] Flat-padders [19:50:38] Because at the direction that mankind is going I was beginning to think that indeed it was flat [19:50:39] and apparently this isn't an issue with a different texture folder anyway [19:50:42] so it must be different [19:50:55] Yep [19:51:03] Weirdo [19:54:56] he seems to have misplaced the modified elevation file [19:55:01] that explains it [19:55:23] he has the right folder, so at some point he probably had the file [19:56:26] ah odd though [19:57:56] yeah [20:01:25] Who is Deke Slayton here? [20:01:32] I have a question for him [20:02:05] in name of the members of the Apollo room. high atop everything [20:02:19] *Lovely Apollo room, high above everything [20:10:16] Deke could fire people. I don't think we have anybody like that here [20:25:35] About Joystick usage with NASSP, for THC and RHC you can use two independent joysticks? I don´t know if that is correct as I read it somewhere [20:25:50] I mean, one device for THC and another for RHC [20:30:59] yes that works [20:33:58] And for the THC... [20:34:16] Can you do it from the POV switch? [20:34:36] probably with VESIM I guess [20:34:41] Aha [20:34:58] I will experiment with that in a few weeks [21:07:06] Good night/afternoon guys [21:45:29] night! [22:33:35] Does anyone have a LM AOH vol. 2 that has all the procedures in proper order? The misplaced pages in the LM11 AOH I have are killing me [23:00:49] I think the LM 11 copy is the only one we have [23:00:57] I can try to edit the pdf and fix it though [00:30:55] editing PDFs is more complicated than it needs to be given the fact that we're coming up on a quarter of the way through the 21st century